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Box-and-one engine mechanics

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From: mink0ff
This Post:
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322487.1
Date: 12/31/2023 10:01:57
BC Vitosha Sofia
A Grupa
Overall Posts Rated:
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Second Team:
Sofia Alpha Dogz
Box-and-One defenses: Four players play in a zone defense protecting the basket while the fifth player plays a man-to-man defense guarding the best offensive player on the other team
Two questions:

1. How is the fifth defender (the one who plays m2m) determined? Is it highest OD for OBO and highest ID for IBO? Is it the highest OD + ID combo? Is it always the SF? Or is it something else completely? Also do SB/RB play a part too?

2. How are the remaining box players positioned engine-wise? I.e. in case for example the m2m defender is the player at 4, does the player at 3 guard the low post? And respectively if the m2m defender is the player at 2, does the player at 3 guard the perimeter in that case?

Edit: 3. How is defensive rebounding determined? Does the m2m defender rebound at his nominal position or does he defend at another fixed position? 1 for OBO and 5 for IBO, for instance.

Last edited by mink0ff at 12/31/2023 10:53:34

BBB: 2 (S37 S38); Top tier: 7 (S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S41 S63); Cup: 9 (S25 S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S40 S41 S61)
This Post:
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322487.2 in reply to 322487.1
Date: 12/31/2023 11:10:48
white snake
Bundesliga
Overall Posts Rated:
71407140
Second Team:
Black Forest Boars
Box-and-One defenses: Four players play in a zone defense protecting the basket while the fifth player plays a man-to-man defense guarding the best offensive player on the other team
Two questions:

1. How is the fifth defender (the one who plays m2m) determined? Is it highest OD for OBO and highest ID for IBO? Is it the highest OD + ID combo? Is it always the SF? Or is it something else completely? Also do SB/RB play a part too?

2. How are the remaining box players positioned engine-wise? I.e. in case for example the m2m defender is the player at 4, does the player at 3 guard the low post? And respectively if the m2m defender is the player at 2, does the player at 3 guard the perimeter in that case?

Edit: 3. How is defensive rebounding determined? Does the m2m defender rebound at his nominal position or does he defend at another fixed position? 1 for OBO and 5 for IBO, for instance.


1: OD, ID, SB are the used for the calculation. If your best defender is your PF, he will be the +1.

2: yes, the SF will move down/up. But the players rotate. Your low post players will defend some of the 3pts from the top.

3: the +1 defender rebounds at the position where he is. If he is currently at the top of the perimeter, he will rebound from there. If he is directely under the basket, than from there.

This Post:
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322487.3 in reply to 322487.2
Date: 12/31/2023 11:26:34
BC Vitosha Sofia
A Grupa
Overall Posts Rated:
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Second Team:
Sofia Alpha Dogz
Thanks for you reply!

1: OD, ID, SB are the used for the calculation. If your best defender is your PF, he will be the +1.
Could you please elaborate on that. Are they all taken in equal measure? Also, what you say would imply that the +1 defender is always the same guy (with GS being equal ofc), no matter what type of box-and-one is used. Could you confirm that?

Last edited by mink0ff at 12/31/2023 11:27:21

BBB: 2 (S37 S38); Top tier: 7 (S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S41 S63); Cup: 9 (S25 S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S40 S41 S61)
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322487.4 in reply to 322487.3
Date: 12/31/2023 12:34:01
cascachosa
II.1
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The way to confirm that is using it in your games. Once setted this defense, if you review the play by play of your game, you would see that your determined best defender (OD + ID + SB) is always defending your rival's best attacker

Cuatro ojos tiene el puente
This Post:
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322487.5 in reply to 322487.4
Date: 12/31/2023 13:27:57
BC Vitosha Sofia
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Second Team:
Sofia Alpha Dogz
Thanks. Of course I am processing the play-by-plays, not manually most of the time. It is challenging to make a reasonable assumption, however, when your best combo defender is also your best inside defender, your best outside defender and your best shot blocker at the same time.

Also, my own research indicates that the +1 defender rebounds at his nominal position which is inconsistent with what Nachtmahr said. That's why I'm looking for more input.

Last edited by mink0ff at 12/31/2023 19:02:45

BBB: 2 (S37 S38); Top tier: 7 (S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S41 S63); Cup: 9 (S25 S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S40 S41 S61)
This Post:
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322487.8 in reply to 322487.7
Date: 01/01/2024 04:29:53
white snake
Bundesliga
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Second Team:
Black Forest Boars
Also, my own research indicates that the +1 defender rebounds at his nominal position


This is true. The rebounding position doesn't "move around" with the +1 defender

Thanks Justin, this is something new (for me). The old games indicated, that the +1 moved around, but than it was a wrong conclusion from the data.

This Post:
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322487.9 in reply to 322487.1
Date: 01/01/2024 08:44:59
QQguest
I.1
Overall Posts Rated:
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I guess that which position to guard will affect the decision of +1 (the one who plays man-to-man).

During the middle of the 59th season, I bought a defensive player (48388362).
Regardless of OD, ID, or SB, he is the best defender on the team.
I wanted to test out the Box-and-one strategy, but upon watching the match replay, I found that he doesn't seem to be the +1 player.
It happens in two games, both using the Inside Box and One strategy.
In one game, I had him guard the SF position (setting), and in another game, he guarded the PG position (setting).

Last edited by little Guest at 01/03/2024 10:01:08

This Post:
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322487.10 in reply to 322487.6
Date: 01/01/2024 08:50:04
BC Vitosha Sofia
A Grupa
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Second Team:
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Thanks a lot for your input! And a Happy New Year to all of you guys!

BBB: 2 (S37 S38); Top tier: 7 (S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S41 S63); Cup: 9 (S25 S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S40 S41 S61)
This Post:
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322487.11 in reply to 322487.9
Date: 01/03/2024 06:10:37
white snake
Bundesliga
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Second Team:
Black Forest Boars
In one game, I had him guard the SF position, and in another game, he guarded the PG position.

What do you mean with "you had him guard"? The +1 defender is calculated by the engine and the engine also decides, who he is going to guard. You can set him up as SF and play than Inside Box. The engine will decide, who the "best" opposing outside player is and your +1 will guard him. If this is the PG, your +1 will switch from SF to PG on defense. As far as I know, we managers have no influence on the directly guarded position in a Box defense (for the +1).