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Just curious how you can say that anyone here has “lost the plot” when it comes to U21, when as far as I can tell you’ve had your team for less than a season, are not active on the forums or on discord, and have offered neither a question or an answer to anything involved in the debate between these two candidates. As someone involved in the community, I see two candidates who have been involved in training and game planning for 10, 15, 20 seasons. I see two managers who have a good grasp on what it takes to run a u21 team, who have contributed the time and effort it takes to be considered strong candidates in the U21 arena and who I would be happy to entrust our team to. In my personal opinion, I think Antwon has shown a better case to lead us based on his club success and his history of training U21 players for the teams of several different past managers. I also think his upset in the semifinals of the USA tournament last season shows a killer instinct and ability to take risks and gamble successfully in big games. That being said, I think oriolekid has demonstrated a strong ability to scout upcoming and future opponents and I value that skill and would have no qualms with him leading the team in that regard. I’m not sure what it is about either candidate that makes you think you can come in and say you have any lack of confidence whatsoever, as a d4 manager you probably haven’t even sniffed any of the issues that a U21 team would encounter and I think your “extreme concern” is completely unfounded.

Last edited by Nick22 at 01/15/2022 20:16:39

Everything you said rings true, maybe get involved with the team in some capacity and see that their community and dedication is quite strong. As an outsider to the process, I can honestly say that both Antwon and oriolekid are both passionate, competent, and fitting of our support. I don't have to say anything about khenry, he's as good of a manager as you'll find in the game. A pool of managers dedicated to U21 does exist, and there are numerous folks that would welcome another voice and help guide folks who are new to the process. Jump in and find out. Thanks for your contribution, can't say that wasn't a premium response, and it definitely was the one that I was after.

Last edited by fury508 at 01/15/2022 20:23:05

I don't doubt there are people who care about it. there wouldn't be three candidates, and there wouldn't be conversation. My comments about not being confident have nothing to do with any of the three's potential to dedicate themselves effectively, and also the people behind the scenes not talking that do a lot of work.

I just wanted to try and push some motivation to think about what i see as a bigger issue to the success or failure of the team. Maybe down the road some more when i have the finances in place a few seasons into this tenure to also contribute with players i'll get more interested, i'd love for any of the contenders for the job to come in and put me in my place since winning is the end goal.

I just wanted to try and push some motivation to think about what i see as a bigger issue to the success or failure of the team.

You still have not said a single point with regards to what this so called “bigger issue” is. You’ve said that you think we need to offer newer managers routes to train players for the U21 team, and yet no manager in the history of USA U21 has barred new managers from training or restricted build ideas to those who have history of creating U21 players. The fact of the matter is, U21 players are more often to be created by established managers simply due to the fact that they have the infrastructure and knowledge to train better quality players. As long as I’ve been involved (which is off and on dating back to about Season 25), new managers who draft U21 potential players have been told very candidly the pros and cons to training or selling their players, and what it would take to create the quality of player who we are seeking for USA U21.

In fact both Antwon and Oriolekid have addressed this as an issue. I don’t think there’s a manager in the country who doesn’t think we should try to have as many people as possible training with U21 in mind. Oriolekid has said several times that he’s planning to encourage less traditional builds for these fringe players with newer trainers in order to both give more managers a chance at having a player on the team, and increase the depth of our player pool. I’m just confused as to what your issue is here, as I feel your only real stated complaint has been addressed repeatedly.


Last edited by Nick22 at 01/15/2022 21:14:42

You bring nothing to this conversation no matter what name or tag you are hiding behind.

I highly encourage the American community to not feed the troll. Just don’t respond. We have a couple of great candidates. This guy wants/needs attention, positive or negative. Always has, always will. Let’s go America.

I'd actually like to bring attention to world hunger, poverty, long working hours, and murder.

I have no idea how our candidates are going to fix it but it's a problem but I have 0 confidence in them to do so.

That is all.

You are entitled to your opinion of me as a manager. I wasn't here to troll.

I'll steer clear of talking about it further, good luck to whomever wins the u21 job.

To get this thread back on track after the last dozen posts about... something?

To GForce:
People are free to use whatever criterium they want to vote for whatever candidate. I apologize for getting snippy at yours. He has trained a U21 player more recent than I, yes, that is true.


To E.B.W.
Successes outside the most populous nations do exists; Israel, sure, as well as Lithuania. Getting the right player, with the right potential, under the right manager with the right resources is absolutely easier for countries like Spain, and Italy, and us and a few others than the smaller countries. I'd love to learn more about the Israelean process. 11 of their 13 players on their full NT are Israeli owned so having a core group who builds the NT up is a dream that we all can hope to achieve.

Going back to the big vs small nations thing.

USA gets between 150-190 18 y/os with Superstar or better potential every class. Spain and Italy are around 190-220 per year. Israel is around 35-50. Would you rather have 150, or 200 lottery tickets or 50?

But their training regimen might be world class beyond anything we know or have considered!

If we can’t make 18 great players with 190 options, why do you think that will suddenly change when we have 30 more options? It’s not the total number that matters, it’s the process, and the process hasn’t worked for the USA and has for Italy and Spain.

Last edited by E.B.W. at 01/16/2022 16:58:14

Okay, I can meet you there.

It's why my main running thing for like 4 elections has been to make the specialty players. I know, me suggesting a 9 Reb one earlier gave some people pause, but we need guys outside the elite ones that can show different looks.

I'm not going to hash out our the player's skills in the public right now, but go on discord and look at the group of guys we had against Poland. Still early season age21, but we wanted to go inside, and did go LI and the highest passing on a guard in the entire pipeline was 11, and he wasn't in the GS to start. The highest IS we had on a SF was 12. Every U21 needs to be able to run an inside and an outside effectively, and we had a ton of awesome guys, but none that could get the ball inside. The PG of that game had -14+- and only 9 passing. The IS on him was nice but we needed him to get the ball inside more.

So I love a LI PG. I don't need him taking 14 shots. I need to him to create 14 more. Give me a pure SG with enough JR so we can at least attempt to run the Motion offense successfully enough to threaten. We do balanced SFs quite well, but give me one of those 190 players a season that can hit a 3 and defend inside, or vice-versa.

So if I can scout everyone and be real with managers about their player's chance early, like 18 or 19, then that gives them chances to switch up training so we can get a different type of beast.

"Hey, he's young but already far enough behind on the depth chart. I don't think he will make U21 training him the way you were going to. Might I suggest this build shown in the image below. That guy makes the team even if he has a flaw or two. If you have any questions please ask."

A BB, or discord message like that goes so very far for us going forward.

Last edited by oriolekid at 01/16/2022 17:19:31