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National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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This Post:
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316445.7 in reply to 316445.6
Date: 11/03/2022 19:25:11
Wasted Potential
NBBA
Overall Posts Rated:
457457
Second Team:
Hazards to Society
I would disagree with the thought that we have to specialize in only one direction like a club team might. On a NT roster you have 18 roster spots and can take the best 18 USA players without worrying about salary or having to play each of them every night. With 1000 users we can train up a versatile roster that can go in many directions.

I really like the idea of modeling a few players after Finland's bigs and we are getting there with a lot of players in our pipeline for sure. However, I think if we are looking at the country with the best NT roster in the world then it is obviously China (or maybe France the last 2 seasons). Did they lose to Finland in the semis? Yes. Did it take extra effort by Finland combined with a double guess and correct zone defense just to win by 3? Yes.

When we see these teams like China, France, or Israel, we see a ton of 20/20 defense guys that can also play offense very effectively. In fact China normally runs two of these players in their starting lineup. The B3 runner-up this season and the B3 champion last season ran tons of players with very high OD/ID combos. I think our biggest weakness was not having any of these guys that really make our defense more versatile.

Hard agree on donkeys being a thing of the past. Our big's need to be built better so we don't have to rely on a Stanley or a younger unfinished big. In addition to liking the shot blockers that you mentioned, I have a few build ideas in mind from seeing some of Israel, France, and China's top bigs that can score inside and do a lot more.

Also I think 18 IS on guards is too low of a goal long term (if current salary formulas stay). While it might be nice to get the current players there, our future guards need to shoot for 20. Another top NT coach called 18 IS on a wing pretty pathetic.

This Post:
00
316445.8 in reply to 316445.7
Date: 11/03/2022 20:01:12
LionPride
IV.11
Overall Posts Rated:
246246
Second Team:
TerrapinPride
I agree with the 18/ whatever IS. I just know now we had only a handful above 18 last season. I think just one above 20 so I’d like for those still in training age to keep pumping IS. Some countries have 24 IS and 22 JS starting with 21 OD and we do not have a player like that (though one with the potential for it!)

We have a couple players that go ID to OD, but I’d love to have a OD to ID guy. There’s… frighteningly few 20 OD guys in the pipeline that even come close to 19/20 ID

And you misunderstand me on my first point. My whole point is not not build a roster like the last one that can only work well with Motion. I want the versatility of inside, outside, and neutral. I have a specific 3 favorites in mind (available on request in the discord), barring some lovely scouting surprises

Last edited by oriolekid at 11/03/2022 20:06:15

This Post:
00
316445.9 in reply to 316445.4
Date: 11/04/2022 06:03:00
Shrewsbury Honeybadgers
IV.16
Overall Posts Rated:
3232
I think it's going to be good for us, as sad as it is, to be closing in on the end of the Webb, Mrsola, Moeller years because as dominant as they were for us(in Americas), they're so bloody inefficient because the 21+OD that all the elite nations have positions 1-4 stop them pretty easily.


This is a misleading statement. Yes, it’s good to see what the next generation of players are training to look like. No, Webb/Mrosla/Moeller were not the issue. The issue was not having anyone that could take minutes away from those guys. Regardless of what other nations had or have defensively, this is what we had in our hand so it’s not like we could have been playing a bunch of other guys. That’s the challenge for the next NT manager.

This Post:
11
316445.10 in reply to 316445.9
Date: 11/06/2022 14:02:17
Wasted Potential
NBBA
Overall Posts Rated:
457457
Second Team:
Hazards to Society
Looks like there hasn't been too much discussion, so I'd just like to put out my closing arguments before the election ends tomorrow. It looks like it is just me or oriolekid and while we might agree in a few areas, here are two of the biggest reasons I think I am the best candidate:

Lineups and Tactical Decisions
From my experience playing at the top level and in B3, I feel like I know what types of players work well together in different tactics. I know what tactics are succeeding the most at the top level and how to put together a lineup that will run them the best. I've extensively scouted top talent in the past few seasons and have seen how the big games are being won. Shot blocking bigs and possible position switches were mentioned in this debate thread. I am a manager who has actually succeeded with both (I ran a successful switch in game 2 of the NBBA finals with my Center). Not only am I familiar with the strengths of that particular tactic and players, I am also familiar with the weaknesses and when it would be stronger to run something else.

Organizational Skills and Long Term Planning
Just as I was able to plan out my NBBA run seasons in advance by both beginning the trainee of my two bigs who would carry me there and getting my finances in order, I believe I can begin setting up the National Team for long term success. I've already begun putting together an extensive training guide to help both users that are less experienced with training as well as those that are. As a National Team coach I will be able to be in more extensive contact with people training the top USA players and I can better help spread these training resources. Additionally, I have strong experience with the BB API and other tools. I can easily get us relevant summary stats on our players in order to provide us with better information on what is working for us and what is not.

I think there are other things I bring to the table as a NT coach, but I didn't want to make this too long. If you have any reservations about me then feel free to ask me questions here in the last day and a half before the election ends. I always love more buzzerbeater discussion!

Last edited by Mediocrity at 11/06/2022 14:02:35

From: JPBren
This Post:
00
316445.11 in reply to 316445.10
Date: 11/06/2022 15:04:52
Overall Posts Rated:
33
I'd say my expectations as a common viewer are:

1) More time spent on scouting. No shade being throne to the current group or khenry, i just never got DM'd for my HoF player by anyone on the u21 or NT, and so i am making this the #1 point based on that.

2) Invest slightly more into Handling/Driving, teams such as China for example push 22-23 more often to try and get past the average PG-SG-Sf OD of 20 that most other top 10 nations push out there. I've seen some ugly turnover struggles and /or rebounding struggles from the US in games so that makes me think we aren't matching our skills up with the best of them in HA and REB, but i think Handling is the easier and cheaper fix that will also bring driving up with it.

3) Establish an Americas foothold within the next 3 americas seasons that can never allow smaller nations with fewer managers and talent developers to push us into the worlds play-ins again.

4) Establish the US as an annual top 10 threat that can make the 2nd round of worlds year after year so that we can give ourselves a chance with the right bounces in key games to occasionally make semis/finals runs here and there.

I'd prefer to vote for whoever wins for the next 2 or 3 terms and see if they can produce a long term vision that, even if it doesn't fit what i desire in point 2, can successfully establish us in the americas and worlds round 2 thereafter.

Good luck to both.

Last edited by JPBren at 11/06/2022 15:06:16

This Post:
00
316445.12 in reply to 316445.11
Date: 11/06/2022 16:55:26
Wasted Potential
NBBA
Overall Posts Rated:
457457
Second Team:
Hazards to Society
I think you make some good points

1) Being able to organize the scouting to go deeper into the pipeline of players is one of the main reasons I want to be coach. Khenry planned to get this going but got caught up with a new job and not having the time. I think the main way we are going to get better as a NT is by improved contact with trainers and I have the time to get that going.

2) We definitely need to push past 20 for a lot of skills and handling and driving are some of the cheapest. I also think our bigs need more handling and passing as they have been turnover prone in a lot of games. Rebounding problems have come from our lack of big depth where we are often forced into playing multiple bigs with weak rebounding since they are the only ones in good GS. Getting more people to train bigs will be key.

As for 3 and 4 I think both America's and the World have taken a step up in terms of talent and we need to match that. It'll come from our trainers training better players which ties back to #1 and helping USA users understand the builds that work at the top level.

Last edited by Mediocrity at 11/06/2022 16:57:36