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U21 National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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From: Myles

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296465.26 in reply to 296465.20
Date: 10/27/2018 2:53:56 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
323323
I find it exciting to press the "add to team button" and get the reveal of how skilled the players actually are. It's kind of like buying a pack of baseball cards.

From: Fwinns

To: FurY
This Post:
00
296465.27 in reply to 296465.24
Date: 10/27/2018 2:54:05 PM
V.A.W.T.
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
346346
Will you rely on other users to be your staff or are you prepared to do all the work yourself?
Unfortunately there's a difference between NTs of big nations with 1000s of managers, and those like canada with ~100 managers. You can't really count on anybody but yourself and you shouldn't expect to be able to delegate part of your work. If someone steps up great for you but it most likely won't happen.
If you're not prepared to put the hours required to scout all the players (although I already did most of the 20yo), you're going to run into a wall after enthusiasm reset

Edit: nothing negative here, I'm still undecided, I know sparky can do the job and gets his hands dirty, albeit with some errors, but I'm also curious as to what a next level manager can do. We tried that with falke a few seasons back, still have mixed feelings about it

Last edited by Fwinns at 10/27/2018 2:56:42 PM

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This Post:
22
296465.29 in reply to 296465.22
Date: 10/27/2018 3:10:17 PM
Headless Thompson Gunners
Naismith
Overall Posts Rated:
720720
Second Team:
Canada Purple Haze BC
Sorry to see you go
I will say that this is nothing compared to the discussions that used to be
Not to mention the one that drummed Sparky out of the NT job in the first place

You wrote:
Sparky has had his chances in the past


So did you
And you were deservingly asking to show everyone that you had learned, gained experience, and were now ready to show everyone that you were capable of improving on your past through your experiences.
Doesn't Sparky deserve the same
I say keep in Country!

And besides he's a fine son

This Post:
00
296465.30 in reply to 296465.21
Date: 10/27/2018 3:16:13 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
323323
1) I am willing to spend all the time in the world to help complete the whole database within a week. I believe that it might take 5 - 15 hours to complete it. With some music, it should be a swift task.

2) I believe that it'll take about 2-4 hours a week to message managers/set lineups. I am 100% ready for the task.

3) I prioritize Defense & Offense over Flow. I think that flow needs to be at a necessary size, yet, I believe that the least important skills are within the "Flow Category". Exe: Handling/Drive. I'm not saying that these skills aren't necessary, I just believe that 1 on 1 monsters are not what our U21 team will succeed with. A little 1 on 1 can be good though. Offense and Defense are close in importance, but I prioritize Defensive players over Offensive ones.

4) I believe that for a u21 player, you should have the primaries at a large size, unless you have skills under "mediocre". It really depends on the position, since Centers need less secondaries than PFs. I prioritize 18 year olds in communication over those who will be weak in the secondary skills. In most cases, most players should train primary skills for the majority of the time.

5) Jump Shot & Outside Defense. Jump Shot is necessary for players around the court and increases effectiveness of their shots, no matter where you are. Outside Defense is a perfect way to be able to mix around your defense types, have your Big Men be able to face opposing Jump Shooters, and make it possible for you to play a big man at small forward. Since they will be able to stop small forwards who could be guards.

5b) Passing would be my next choice. Passing gives you the opportunity to play princeton effectively and makes motion a lot stronger. It also affects your offensive flow more than any other skill IMO.

This Post:
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296465.31 in reply to 296465.22
Date: 10/27/2018 3:19:01 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
323323
I did not have a "real chance". I came into the job, midway through the season, after Kumiko had passed. Afterwards, I had to scout the whole database for myself with a lineup that I did not agree with and improper enthusiasm. Just because somebody has had a chance in the past, it does not mean they wouldn't deserve a second one. Since people change. For the same reason, as I'd vote for you if I wasn't running.

From: FurY

This Post:
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296465.32 in reply to 296465.27
Date: 10/27/2018 3:20:18 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
109109
I will repeat what i said earlier. The u21 manager is responsible for the scouting season to season of the skillsets of the players, and the scouts (whether it be 1 or 7) are more or less the people that help those who want the help with their players. If nobody wants to participate at all in any of the mentoring of canadian owners and their talent, then the program will go as far as that lack of help goes.

The comparison to the US was not in terms of manager, it was more in terms of the pool of talent being 3-4 times what it is in canada, and i solo'd the initial scouting of 95% of the talent there. So if that is of significant concern to you, i would say that you should consider that as a testament to my ability to process talent.

From: Myles

This Post:
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296465.33 in reply to 296465.27
Date: 10/27/2018 3:23:12 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
323323
I was quite young on my last U21 stint, so those errors will not occur again.

From: Fwinns
This Post:
11
296465.34 in reply to 296465.33
Date: 10/27/2018 5:03:07 PM
V.A.W.T.
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
346346
Thank you both for your answers.
I don't think we talked about goals for your term(s)
Do you have a 2-seasons or 4-seasons plan?
Every season we're almost always on the verge of making the semis of the America's championship, and if we do it's a really tall order to make it to the finals afterwards, especially because somehow we always end up against the home team.
What would be the goal of the first season?

Also both of you should know that I prefer an offensive team, so for the past 2 seasons the training plans I sent managers asking for it was to train secondaries in the first year (18yo), then switch to primaries. That means I asked for passing/JS for bigs, and rebounding/IS for guards. Somehow next season we lack real inside monsters...
I also put a great emphasis on Pa for guards, more than OD. That's something to bear in mind for the current 19 and 20yo as well...
How will you cope with a team like that for the next 2 seasons?

From: Myles

This Post:
11
296465.35 in reply to 296465.34
Date: 10/27/2018 5:34:46 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
323323
Now taking a u21 team from a previous manager, and raise it to the spot you want to be in 2 seasons is a tall order. Therefore, my plan is more of a 3 season plan, hoping I can get re-elected after this term. First of all, this season, we will try to win our way to the Americas final. Yet, we know that it will be very tough, and without the players, I want to have on the team, it will not be easy.

My plan is to make the semi-finals and perhaps the finals of the Americas tournament within the next two terms. I believe we will have a strong chance under my management to make the semi-finals this time around. If I do get elected, I think I'd re-open up a message board for Canada, perhaps over discord. I also would like to get the next group of Canadians trained in the direction I want them through vigorous conversations.

To cope with that situation, I would get Canadian managers who have guards on the current team, to train OD for a while. This will make our team much stronger in the second half of the season.

Players are moldable, a season at PA/JS is not a waste, just in a different direction.


From: FurY

This Post:
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296465.36 in reply to 296465.34
Date: 10/27/2018 6:45:36 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
109109
1) I don't think that i look at this as a 2 or 4 season plan. I look at it from the angle of how do we fix some of the things we don't do well in communication and development of both managers and players and improve upon them so that we can efficiently work towards a long term outlook that brings canada back to Worlds Group Pool 2, which is where even at a 6th of the larger country's player base it is capable of hanging worlds after worlds. Whether my legacy spans 2 seasons or 4 in Canada, i hope that it is one that can bring the results that Canada wants. The goal of season 1 is to find a guard prospect trainer and a big prospect trainer willing to dedicate themselves to developing two players a piece that can bring success to Canada while also being able to turn 300k players into 2-3m in cash once they or done (or if they keep them, they can be integral parts of their future too!).

2) I would probably look to turn it back towards training elastically. There are ways to influence the development of players quciker by improving certain skillsets first, and by doing this you can squeeze a 42 week plan down to 39 weeks, and have those 3 left for additional pops going into age 21. While having a few unique players with high ball movement is useful, it is less efficient training overall to focus that in the 18-19 timeframe of their development in my opinion. If you want to focus it, training PA at age 20 is more likely to produce quicker pops if you have the OD/HA/DR trifrecta considerably higher than it.

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