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Just wanted to get some feedback on a game I just had. (82316421)

I set the line up as:

pg: musa/xiangjian/xangjian
sg: leroux/ sazan/ sazan
sf: kurni/ saint-arnaud/ saint arnaud
pf: kazior/zadelaar/zadelaar
c: mcnamee/petit/petit

I used strictly follow depth chart, but petit and saint-arnaud didn't even get 1 minute. Most intersting was pg where musa got all but 4 seconds that went to xiangjian. thing is xangjian is a better player (with 9 stamina!)

Any ideas on why this happened?

Also just one more thing any ideas on how to get a 7 man rotation to work with new changes? Seems impossible to not have some players play 36 straight minutes in a blow out win...or 48 in a close game. Thanks. Green.

Last edited by Green Machine at 05/30/2015 21:00:02

I would say it's almost entirely due to high stamina plus a slow offense, with the caveat that even average or respectable stamina makes it really hard for substitutes to come in with slow offenses. It's unfortunate but my experiences with Princeton pretty much say that you've got to let stamina drop way down to get much rotation at all.

I know that stamina has been making minute distribution a bit different than it has been in the past but with regards to the PG situation, both players were at 9 stamina. Only difference between them is that the back up player has better game shape, better DMI and of course better skills.

I'm willing to accept that even though I played SFDC that the best starters just eat up more minutes that scrub back ups (even the full 48), but to play SFDC and in 3/5 instances the coach doesn't listen at all and doesn't give the back ups any minutes is crazy. Maybe if I had played LCD or CPFDC it would be ok, but in strictly follow I expect that there is some element of strict.

If I can't get the coach to give one minute to a better player who is the back up I don't think I understand SFDC....might as well not be any choices.

I know that stamina has been making minute distribution a bit different than it has been in the past but with regards to the PG situation, both players were at 9 stamina. Only difference between them is that the back up player has better game shape, better DMI and of course better skills.

I'm willing to accept that even though I played SFDC that the best starters just eat up more minutes that scrub back ups (even the full 48), but to play SFDC and in 3/5 instances the coach doesn't listen at all and doesn't give the back ups any minutes is crazy. Maybe if I had played LCD or CPFDC it would be ok, but in strictly follow I expect that there is some element of strict.

If I can't get the coach to give one minute to a better player who is the back up I don't think I understand SFDC....might as well not be any choices.

The backup's stamina doesn't matter. The coach basically looks at the starter and when his stamina causes his performance level to drop to an amount low enough that the backup is considered better by whatever formula is used, he substitutes. I always assume that there's a pretty huge modifier to the skill for being listed as the starter vs. the backup.

But the long and short of it is that what you are describing is sadly far from uncommon. Earlier in my time in the game, I had two guys that were pretty similar in skill and both with 8 stamina. Whichever one I started would go above 40 minutes even in a fast offense unless fouls or injuries caused a deviation, and the other would get less minutes. And a few seasons back I routinely saw the two players I hadn't had long enough to lose stamina play nearly 48 minutes in Princeton, despite only 7 stamina (and when one dropped to 6 stamina he still often was above 45 minutes).

This is definitely one of the cases where I can say "this is the way that it is currently" and that I entirely disagree with. Part of the problem is that the other substitution options are admittedly broken, and fixes for this appear to be relatively difficult

The coach basically looks at the starter and when his stamina causes his performance level to drop to an amount low enough that the backup is considered better by whatever formula is used, he substitutes

This is very true
but OP also said that his backup is a better player.

OP didn't post what the starters stamina is, but im assuming that he must have high or higher end stamina as well for him not to get subbed. Otherwise I would have thought first opportunity to sub, the better player comes on. This is what i have found almost 100% of time if backup is a better player, regardless of starting players stamina (unless starting player has like 8-9 stamina)

so it still seems a bit odd for me.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Both players at point had 9 stamina. The other players who didn't get any time had lower stamina than the starters.

Will have to see how the other games play out to do a little more analysis, but I am having a really hard time getting minutes down right this season. In close games (or losing games) they better players with stamina will stay on an entire 48 minutes....in a blow out win, my starters tend to get every single minute until garbage time when I play SFDC (tends to be 36)

With let coach decide or CPFDC the coach will (and has) play the back up (if he is much better than the starter with better stamina) for the full 48 minutes if it is a close game.

Admittedly my starters are far superior to the back ups, but playing 36 or 48 minutes all the time doesn't seem too real or isn't much fun....but maybe I just miss blank line up



Last edited by Green Machine at 05/31/2015 16:25:50

High stamina is more of a pain than it is a benefit. I just sold my best tall who had proficient stamina due to his minutes being so hard to control.Tried bringing him off the bench which would get him 20+ minutes if I was in front. Lost a game by 2 points because my opponent got the jump early and the GE wouldn't bring him into the game. If I started him I would have won comfortably, but would have overshot his minutes. My new rule on stamina is no higher than 7.

yup as above from Periwinkle, ive had high stamina players in the past, and found it very difficult to manage minutes. Ive got a guy with Strong stamina at the moment, and that seems to be about as high as ill let it go.

higher-stamina bench players are quite handy though.

The coach basically looks at the starter and when his stamina causes his performance level to drop to an amount low enough that the backup is considered better by whatever formula is used, he substitutes

This is very true
but OP also said that his backup is a better player.

OP didn't post what the starters stamina is, but im assuming that he must have high or higher end stamina as well for him not to get subbed. Otherwise I would have thought first opportunity to sub, the better player comes on. This is what i have found almost 100% of time if backup is a better player, regardless of starting players stamina (unless starting player has like 8-9 stamina)

so it still seems a bit odd for me.

The backup's stamina won't really matter. The way I've always looked at it (and I reiterate that this is an observation of how things are, not how they should be) is that if you choose SFDC, you're telling the coach that the player you have selected as the starter should be considered the better player when compared to the backup, and it requires the starter to get tired enough to trump that weight. As long as the player's performance is not yet diminished by being tired, you're telling your coach to follow the depth chart you set, and if player A is defined as the preferred player at the start of the game, he'd still be preferred if he's operating at essentially the same level.

High stamina is more of a pain than it is a benefit. I just sold my best tall who had proficient stamina due to his minutes being so hard to control.Tried bringing him off the bench which would get him 20+ minutes if I was in front. Lost a game by 2 points because my opponent got the jump early and the GE wouldn't bring him into the game. If I started him I would have won comfortably, but would have overshot his minutes. My new rule on stamina is no higher than 7.

I concur entirely. I go so far as to say that if I had a button that I could use to instantly drop a stamina level, I would have used that on anyone above mediocre. If you have a deep bench, it's the best way to ensure you can use it.

As long as the player's performance is not yet diminished by being tired, you're telling your coach to follow the depth chart you set, and if player A is defined as the preferred player at the start of the game, he'd still be preferred if he's operating at essentially the same level.

Agree with you 100%. The match in my example was (82499923). Starter was by far the lesser skilled player and mediocre stamina. He was -17 as opposed to +15 for the backup. With the last possession and 6 seconds on the clock, the best scoring option in the side was subbed for my starter against all logic, except for the fact that the coach was "strictly following the depth chart".