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all outside vs inside does is pick who the player being isolated is. Outside whoever has the highest JS/JR. Inside whoever has the highest IS. Other than that shot selection and everything is the same IMHO.

Is it already clear which player the GE selects in each ISO offense and on what paramaters? For outside ISO, things go as expected with my guards taking a lot of shots and having high assists (so I assume they create the offense), and they are succesful in general I believe because good IS. But in Inside ISO, my PF doesn't take a whole lot of shots while he has 18 IS/13 DR/9 PA. Here's an example of a game against a bad team, so I'd think he would destroy them (he plays C here): (79200998).

He took 10 shots, 4 FT's and had 7 assists, so he was not insignificant but with such a mismatch I expected greater results. It could be that he tried to pass a lot since he has decent passing for a big, but still with 18 IS vs inferior defense taking his own shot should have been the best option a lot more often than 10 times.

i've never run across any team that routinely took 25 - 35 three pointers in a game, much less hit 45% while doing so.

my understanding JR is that it trains only as a function of JS.

i have a player with a 15 DR, 16 JS, 13 JR, and he is content with maybe a half dozen threes in an outside or neutral offense.

using the Cavaliers or Rockets as a model, such an offense would need
-- a PG that could routinely hit threes, tremendous DR, and great PA
-- a number of shooting options among at least the 2-3-4 spots, all favoring threes
-- capable big men
-- team rebounding
-- deep bench
training such a team would be quite a challenge or, for that matter, assembling these kinds of players from the TL.

motion is good, but it does not do all this.

I'm with you in that I don't think such an offense really exists currently (which is a shame since it almost looks like my team's makeup). I like Princeton but the problem with that is it's slow and it pretty much negates the advantage of a deep bench, since your opponent's players no longer get as tired and your starters no longer want to go to the bench because Coach McDerpins doesn't care about substitutions. ;)

The bigger problem is that there's a glut of OD in the game and a paucity of JR, relatively speaking. It's not easy to run outside offenses successfully, and the 3-2 has very little downside to it but sure can hamper outside shooting further.

I'm kind of interested in putting together an iso/outside team once I finish flogging my current glue squad, either end of this season or next. I'm leaning toward going with an all-around offensive type SF with absurd driving and good passing, pairing him with guards with driving and IS heavy and bigs with good JS and JR and see if it it works spectacularly or (as I suspect) fails even more spectacularly.

Keep in mind that just the initial person Isoed doesn't necessarily shoot the ball. The fact that he had so many assists says to me that he was in fact the initial iso but passed the ball. Probably because of the 2-3 zone. I also think you need JS on your big.

Last edited by Phyr at 04/07/2015 15:01:15

i think push the ball and paitent is the closet thing to that 80's style of play. it cheap to start but also expensive to replace certain positions later on

I know, but he's a 126k PF he shouldnt have to pass against inferior defense. 10 shot attempts is awfully low for an inside ISO. And he has 14 JS so that shouldnt be a problem either.

Any case, I just wanted to share my experience to add to the cases we can study. One of the guards in that game has 16 DR/10 IS so maybe that triggers the GE too in inside ISO?

motion is good, but it does not do all this.

Definitely not. But it's probably the closest thing.

If only you could make motion consistently take shots around the basket, too.

And generally, if there is going to be a weak link, it will be at SF.

Hence why I always sink most of my monies into a SF.

I know, but he's a 126k PF he shouldnt have to pass against inferior defense. 10 shot attempts is awfully low for an inside ISO. And he has 14 JS so that shouldnt be a problem either.

Any case, I just wanted to share my experience to add to the cases we can study. One of the guards in that game has 16 DR/10 IS so maybe that triggers the GE too in inside ISO?

He probably would have taken a lot more shots in a low post - they'd dump the ball down low, he'd look and say "Can I dunk over this scrub? Yes I can!". In the iso I always ask what would the guy do if you gave him the ball out near the three point line? He might drive some, shoot some, pass some and occasionally the ball will get back to him down low for a dunk. Against a 2-3, I imagine that he'd drive some, and then with the guards pretty consistently open for jumpers, those would look very appealing.

I had some good success with Outside ISO with this setup:

PG: Low shooting, good DR/HA/PA
SG: a PF with good DR/HA/PA
SF: The best shooter
PF: a SF and 2nd best shooter of the team
C: normal C

SG, PF and especially SF took the most shots. I think you have to look for mismatches here. If an opponent is playing SF with good OD, the setup above is almost useless, unless you swith SG and SF so SG takes the most shots.

On the defense you have to switch them of course.

I completely agree with you about mismatch issue. The nature of isolation offences is based on 1 on 1 skills, regardlass of whether inside or outside oriented. Therefore one should pay an extra attention to DR, more generally players ability to create his own shot.

Then question arises, which skills are crucial or determiner to create one's own shot?
1. First and foremost skill is DR (to beat defender)
2. IS and OS (to take advantage of mismatch and to acquire relatively high FG percentage)
3. HA and PA (to avoid turnovers when facing a top class defender)

In terms of BB, inside/outside means only which player on the pitch will be chosen to perform isolation offence.
It certainly does not mean the area from which shots will be used, this is why both II and OI are classified as neutral-focused offences.