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Build me a world-class SB team

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271705.6 in reply to 271705.5
Date: 7/29/2015 12:07:53 PM
Woodbridge Wreckers
DBA Pro A
Overall Posts Rated:
14331433
I'm assuming Nachtmar's comments about lower rebounding when SB is high hold true. I think especially for PF the 10 more SB will have more positive impact than the little lower rebounding. For example, you allow 4 more boards but make them miss 8 more shots because of SB

This Post:
00
271705.11 in reply to 271705.4
Date: 7/29/2015 2:59:58 PM
Tunjevina
Prva Liga
Overall Posts Rated:
754754
Second Team:
Krompir
It could be possible, maybe a 3-2 zone with those players would work better than man to man, but I would still bet on the other team if it was a BBB game, because higher RB will get him more offenses, higher HA & PA better offensive flow, and probably less turnovers, and high DR, especially those with DR 20 could break the zone.
But that's still a world-class LI team that isn't much different than the one I mentioned.

This Post:
00
271705.12 in reply to 271705.8
Date: 7/29/2015 3:00:03 PM
Tunjevina
Prva Liga
Overall Posts Rated:
754754
Second Team:
Krompir
That's an excellent PF, but what about outside players and tactics.Do you think that in order to beat those LI teams that have high OD & IS on all positions, you have to play LI/LP too?
It makes sense to me that if your building a team based on SB, your primary offense wouldn't be LI, so I would like to here some thoughts on beating that LI team I mentioned with high SB and some other tactics, outside or neutral.

This Post:
11
271705.14 in reply to 271705.7
Date: 7/29/2015 5:14:24 PM
Woodbridge Wreckers
DBA Pro A
Overall Posts Rated:
14331433
@ Lemonshire:
Yes I confirmed that you give up more opportunities by losing more rebounding battles, but if you make them miss more times than you give them extra rebounds, in the end you'll have better defense. I have no numbers to back this up myself, Nachtmar does and that is why I think giving up 2 RB/1 ID is worth it to add 10 SB.

@Manon:
I agree that less IS and more outside skills is more salary efficient, but I wanted to stay close to the LI team and improve it's defense against other LI teams, so comparing would be easier. I too have ideas about very different kind of teams, but I was afraid too much discussion about outside attacks etc would occur instead of discussion about SB. I still have my idea about guards without OD but high ID and bigs with low ID but high OD and switch them defensively, but I won't add that to this discussion :)

@tunjevinа:
Yes I tried to stay close to your LI team and just add more SB to it, so it's easier to compare. I too think a 3-2 zone could be very effective. About the 2 lower RB, I don't think it will be a huge difference, certainly not as big as the increased SB. Then the lower DR/HA/PA I think also won't have a big impact, since I think the amounts on your bigs is a little excessive. As far as I've seen, there's not that big of a difference between 10 and 12 PA on bigs. In this case I kept IS high and added JR too, so offensively he's still strong so he won't need to rely on his passing too much to need that high PA. In Manon's example where he has lower IS, I think higher PA/HA is needed to compensate.
In the end, of course you need to sacrifice something to add something else, I specifically tried to keep Salary and TSP the same as your example to keep comparisons fair. Then it's a question on wether the sacrifice is bigger than the gain or not, and I think 10 SB is a bigger gain than the things I toned down. But, it's just my opinion and theory, and we'll need more data to analyze further :)

This Post:
00
271705.15 in reply to 271705.13
Date: 7/29/2015 11:17:03 PM
Tunjevina
Prva Liga
Overall Posts Rated:
754754
Second Team:
Krompir
I'm also a huge fan of OD and I use to have outside players with OD-ID-SB 20-11-5, 23-9-2, 20-8-8, 18-14-6.
And like I said, I have experience with SB players & 3-2 zone, I know how it works, and this topic isn't about it.
It's about what kind of players people think a world-class SB team would need in order to beat the best LI teams in a game.For example:
- C: (http://i.imgur.com/iN7a40i.png)
- PF: (http://i.imgur.com/FR1cAQh.png)
- SF for 3-2 zone: (http://i.imgur.com/eKyM3ff.png)
- SF for 2-3 zone: (http://i.imgur.com/T265OX4.png)
etc.

@Jeründerba
To be honest, the amount of DR/HA/PA on those bigs that I've posted is actually less than what some of the Serbian teams have, so it isn't excessive.You will see much stronger teams from Serbia with better players than what I posted, and certainly stronger than current KK Mordor, in the upcoming seasons.
I believe that RB 14 would be a huge loss that would be quite noticeable.I would rather lose IS than RB against those teams
Because almost every OR is immediately converted into an easy point. SB 16 will of course help to reduce the amount of points from OR, but it's still quite low for DR 18+ & IS 19+, so a lot of the OR would still be easy points.

This Post:
00
271705.16 in reply to 271705.15
Date: 7/30/2015 3:59:23 AM
Woodbridge Wreckers
DBA Pro A
Overall Posts Rated:
14331433
Let me first say that I have no experience at the NT/B3 level, so I'm just going on theory and experience that others shared, so it could very well be that things I suggest don't work as I think, but I just want to answer your request to make a SB-team and add to the discussion :)

I believe there are teams that have that high DR/HA/PA, but is there data/experience to show what the increase from the levels I suggested to those high levels have for impact in games? I would think that at a certain point, even higher doesn't have a very big impact anymore on bigs, just because they handle the ball less. Again, something needs to be sacrificed to keep things comparable to the team you presented in order to add SB. There have been indications that adding SB is effective, the question is wether the gains in much higher SB are higher than the loss of a little RB, ID, HA/DR/PA. I think the little drops in these skills are not as impactful as the 10 extra SB. I'm curious to see how others think they can add SB in the same limits (TSP, salary, potential), maybe other sacrifices are better than the ones I'm suggesting. For example, I added JR too, but that can be reduced again for the HA/DR/PA, which might be better when you stick with LI. I added JR in the assumption I would suggest another type of attack too, but then decided I would stick to LI and stay close to the builds you used.


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