BuzzerBeater Forums

SO in the interest of testing how dominate IS and OD are or aren't...

I'm gonna change directions...which is good because I didn't really have one.
Assuming I don't get banned first LOL

I'm going to drop efficiency for volume- since i don't want to rely on the market. Err volume overall should be more efficient for total pops added to my team as a whole...and the U21...although slow backend but we'll just have to see...

I'm going to 3 pos. train alternating OD and IS...OD first /mostly...but then some IS...

I'm gonna try to 18 and 19s to start...train 7-9 players at once...hard to get 48s that many on 3 positions but I'll try it.

I guess I can try to find some models and data to see if it will be possible to get 20+ in both stats for 9 players in any relatively quick time frame (2 real world years LOL...I'll definitley get banned before that LOL...maybe I'll have to pretend forums don't exist)....

I'm guessing, 100% guessing-
1 pop every 5 weeks or so...so maybe 3 a season? ... so about 12 pops to each player by the time they are 22...that will still be pretty weak....Hopefully I can train faster than that...if not It'll take to maybe 27 or 28 I guess to get over 20 on both OD and IS with such a slower regimen...But I wont run more than 1 team so its gonna be what is possible for one team with its own training....

If anyone else is interested maybe we get get a group of 3 teams, everyone training IS/OD on 3 players each, then rock paper scissors at the end to decide who buys all the OD/IS machines from whom at the end to see how tuff, or not tuff their team is with only OD and IS ever trained on their players.

Last edited by WolphyWolph at 07/01/2017 10:25:48

Why not just train OD three weeks in a row and then do a week of IS followed by 1ON1 Fs. Get some IS shot work and also help with elastic effect.

Is that a joke!!! You need passing to win......you need rebounding to win
That seems like the dumbest project ever!!! And a waste of time

Why not do a all OD,Passing,IS, rebounding project. No JS,ID

If you have enough OD the opponents passing doesn't matter, and if your opponent has enough OD your passing doesn't matter.

DR pushes drives so flow is not considered to get more looks inside and you need IS to finish those well and draw fouls....

But without DR or PA the players will still try SOMETHING...and in LI you know what that will be.

The question is at one point is a point of reb gonna give you more than a point of OD....After OD hits about 25 or so? And at that point every single pop of RB would cost salary and cap space where IS really wont, up until 25 or so.

REB is a salary and cap eater. I don't think it matters near as much as IS and OD in this GE relative to cost and cap.

PA across the team is the only thing that ever really helps flow. If you have an 18 PA PG and a 1 PA PF and C you will get tons of TOs anyway and depending on the offense and other stats there is no guarantee that PG gets any more than 8 or 9 assists a game...

At the TEAM PA/FLOW model if you are facing a team with EVERY PLAYER 20+ OD do you know what the difference GE wise between 12 and 15 PA??? NOTHING. Actually the difference between 1 PA and 10PA also nothing...so what is the point to take PA of the C/PF to 10 or 12 or so on?? NO point if the opponent is rocking 20OD on their C...

Try to take a look at China and Taiwans cookie cutter players. They have that OD and that IS. All the other stats are for shits and giggles...all their players highest stats are gonna be OD and IS and its been that way for a long time.

I'm not making this up out of thing air- I'm telling you what you'll see with your own eyes if you look . Nobody has taken it to the extreme of just train those only really... but they could and it would be funny I think....how much better it would work than people think.

Let's say this matchup (every player on team same)-

7 7
30 7
7 7
30 7
7 7

vs.

15 15
15 15
15 15
15 15
15 15

everytime the skill matchup is 30 vs. 15 it would be the same as the fifteen was a 0. So the question is each time the GE runs a play where stats are faced off- how often is it 15 vs. 30 and how often is it 15 vs. 7

This is the basis of my theory, its about how the GE works. ESPECIALLY when you run LI and for how OD works on defense.

YES passing is important...but when OD is so much higher than PA at an elite level it wont matter....its 30 to 15 (as an example)

Right now teams look about like this

12 12
20 12
18 12
20 12
12 12

WIth more inside skills on bigs and more outside skills on Gs...but OD and IS always very high....Some teams will drop IS a little and that works..

Because its not really about good offense, all offense is horrrible in BB...its about stifling defense caused by OD because OD is a the primary stopping stat for ALL plays. Its in basically every play IMO (obviously I don't know the code) but I just don't think there is any time that OD is not part of the equation.

Look at this game again-
http://www.buzzerbeater.com/match/95831606/boxscore.aspx

Vitosha wins with 13 PD rating and holds opponent to 72 on defense. Actually his team basically won wiht defense holding everyone to low points but 1 team (109)
He also has ID/SB...very good on all defense.
Compared to some of hte better scoring teams in b3 he has horrible passing. Horrible flow. But if you look around there are only a few of the top successful b3 teams that have better than 10 PA ratings...and not much beyound that but lots and lots of 12+ OD and/or inside scoring teams...all over the place....


http://www.buzzerbeater.com/match/95717865/boxscore.aspx

His opponent put up 15 ID rating and it was Vitosha's highest scoring game....114 points....LOL
Because of NINE PD of opponent FAIL.

We know ID doesn't work without OD...and OD does was it does against everything but LI. If you have much higher IS and PD thano hter team....they can't win IMO

Shhhh I'm sure he knows what he's doing lol.

OK....You got my attention. I will be watching!!

I was trying to map out the speeds for 3 position training...

Looks pretty dismal.

I don't think there is a way to make a dominate team without just plain outfinancing people.

That wont happen for a new team that isn't daytrading. Just not possible....

SO I'm on the fence now if I'm gonna just do this for 3 players or quit BB in general. I don't think training 3 positions will work for any kind of build...especially in a micro where I'm starting in Div. II facing teams like yours. Player build is not even a factor, I need 2 or 3 real world calendar years just to build up the arena and cash flow to ever play any meaningful games here.

Yea...that's an option. 2 position is also very slow...and who am I gonna play against?

It all comes back to micro and the slowness of this game. Although I'm interested in doing this experiment its basically impossible unless they merge Japan soon.

It just doesn't matter one bit how I build my team. The #1 factor will be if I daytrade or not (in terms of advancing my net worth to have the cash to acquire players to compete at this level)...

Training also- if I use it to experiment that may be slower than just training for profit.

I can probably BUY more IS/OD for 6 guys faster than I can train...actually I am pretty sure that is the case. If I want OD and IS for my team, to run an OD/IS experiment that fastest path is to buy it not train it.

I would make my goal 8 players with 20+ OD/IS. I was looking at the models to see if I could do that with 3 position training. I can train 8 players but I don't think I can get the pops necessary before they just get too old, and it may also be faster to just train 3 at a time up to 9 using single position training.

Multiposition training is gimped in this game. It doesn't give you more overall pops, it just trains the players slower- that is all..because of farming and FA process its better to buy players and only single position players are competitive/useful at the upper levels....

Anyway no matter how I cut it it will be 3 or 4 years actually before I could get near those 8players. Do yo ureally think I can keep playing this game for 3 years with nothing but THAT as my reason to sign on??????????????????? To prove that a stupid line-up and meaningless stats create a non-simulation of basketball using the same LI strategy that everyone has already be using forever...and for what???? To prove to some forum trolls that this game is not worth playing???

How crazy am I???? LOL..... FOr now I'll try to figure something out. I don't WANT people to train ODIS or ODDRIS...I'm just point out that it is what it is...

I got 18s and 19s now that were/are on DR training...So I got to try to sort out starting next week if I'm going for 8 at a time or 3. ... Probably going to be 3. I think I can get them to 20/20 in simgle position training withing maybe 5 seasons....much better chance I do that before getting banned than the 10 or more seasons I'd need for 3 position training.