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From: odie

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271644.11 in reply to 271644.9
Date: 07/25/2015 13:23:16
ThEyeTiger
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
6565
Second Team:
Hiatus Kaiyotes
That is an interesting opinion (trainerman will kill you haha), can you explain it please?

This Post:
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271644.12 in reply to 271644.8
Date: 07/25/2015 13:38:53
Overall Posts Rated:
301301
Thats exactly the point.
Take a typical "defense monster" with ID 19 and SB 5 and compare with a C with ID 17 and SB 17.
Now guess who gets better inside def ratings and who plays better defense.
Right, 12 level of SB contribute less than 2 levels of ID to ID rating.
That's why I said its negligible.

From: B.B.King

To: odie
This Post:
00
271644.15 in reply to 271644.11
Date: 07/25/2015 13:47:58
Overall Posts Rated:
12061206
ID works better than SB and therefore I spent more skillpoints to ID.

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271644.16 in reply to 271644.15
Date: 07/25/2015 14:19:04
Overall Posts Rated:
766766
interesting comment and interesting thread

i am one of the few 'SB believers' out there.
currently i have two Centres whose SB skills are 13-16 and 14-15 (ID-SB)

ID works better than SB

What ID doesn't do is block shots. What ID doesn't do is stop bigs from attempting shots. There has been some stats done that prove this.
Also ive experienced players having a higher game rating with the SB topping up the defensive skills of the player. AND - i think that a 13-16 ratio of ID-SB will give a higher game rating than a 16-13 ratio. No stats to back that up though.

also - as i recently mentioned to Trainerman in another thread - everyone forgets SB and OD - guards still try to block shots at the 3 point line right? ever had a guard with decent SB stop 3's with blocked shots? works wonders :)

From: FurY

This Post:
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271644.17 in reply to 271644.10
Date: 07/25/2015 14:20:52
Overall Posts Rated:
109109
Without significant data from the rest of BB, i would not believe the comment outright that it reduces shots. It likely reduces an opponent's will to go inside, it might drop shots by 1 or 2 if they can't generate open shots in a slower paced offense, but dropping 6 sounds like abandoned strategy.

I'd settle for 15/12 built players mostly out of market demand right now. I don't fancy spending 5 seasons building a player specifically how i want them on the inside skillset. Since i found a 15 ID 10 SB player on the market for cheap already, i can just add the 2 SB before the end of his build and have that at a low cost. Ideally i don't know if i care all that much. If i have 27 points in those skills combined, whether i have 20 and 7 or 7 and 20 or somewhere in between, i probably have a inside defender that can do the job.

From: Phyr
This Post:
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271644.18 in reply to 271644.9
Date: 07/25/2015 14:26:41
Overall Posts Rated:
654654
Would a guy with 7 ID/20 SB be able to defend a big spot effectively in DI or international play? I don't think the answer would be yes. If we are just talking about effectiveness, I would want the 20ID/7SB guy.

You can make arguments that SB trains quicker than ID, that its more cost and cap effective, that its effectiveness receives the boost with zones now, and that it impacts all shots being taken not just inside but I have a tough time believing that SB is more effective at defending inside shots and impacting the team inside defense ratings than ID.


This Post:
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271644.19 in reply to 271644.18
Date: 07/25/2015 14:33:24
Overall Posts Rated:
766766
that build would be impossible i think, unless your player started with 7 SB and Atrocious ID. And someone whom trained that player to be 20SB, should NEVER be in D1. haha.

if you had 20SB and never trained ID, it would be more likely to be at 20-11 ratio or thereabouts.

i get your point that you are making...
however - that player would block 5 shots a night. And the 'intimidation' factor, would reduce the number of shots taken inside by another 5 per game.
So essentially you save 10 inside shots a game. So it depends on the definition of 'effectiveness'

I have absolutely no stats to back up any of those comments above btw, just my observations with high SB players.

This Post:
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271644.20 in reply to 271644.19
Date: 07/25/2015 14:35:28
Overall Posts Rated:
654654
Of course this is just hypothetical. What about happen when that high SB doesn't block the shot though? Dunk city?

This Post:
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271644.21 in reply to 271644.16
Date: 07/25/2015 14:55:35
Overall Posts Rated:
12061206
It's fact that SB didn't work in seasons before season 25 (or something like that, I don't remember exactly when SB changes was implement). SB was practically worthless in that time. Few managers discovered it and there were created 400k monsters played in successful NTs. (fwiw I saw few NT games).
Then we had change. First element of change was salary, SB became cheaper. However salary has no impact on GE. For finances still it's cosmetic change. I think high-end center, with SB+5 than typical, will have new salary smaller by 5k in comparison to old formula. Of course for other positions effect is smaller and for guards there is no gain in comparison to old formula.
Second element of change was little more impact of SB in GE. However "practically worthless" strengthened by "little more impact" still is practically worthless. It's easy to find successful teams, which defence makes opponent cries, and which have typically 0-2 blocks per game.

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