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2-3 got buffed?

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This Post:
11
318313.2 in reply to 318313.1
Date: 02/27/2023 10:07:04
Isca Centurions
EBBL
Overall Posts Rated:
323323
Second Team:
Dartmoor Pumas
I don't know what it was like before, but I don't think this is a great example as it looks like a comfortable win. You shot 10/26 from three and overall your PG/SG/SF had a great scoring day with very high PP100.

In a 2-3 your PG/SG will defend the outside and SF/PF/C defend closer to the basket. So your SF would probably want to be more inside-orientated than in base man-to-man. See this for an example image (https://www.basketballforcoaches.com/wp-content/uploads/20...)

The change happened in s56:

Our goal is to continually monitor the balance and performance of offensive and defensive tactics in BuzzerBeater. Starting now, in Season 56, we have made minor improvements to the following tactics:

Offenses:
- Base Offense
- Inside Isolation
- Outside Isolation

Defenses:
- 2-3 Zone
- Inside Box and One
- Outside Box and One

We know that more balance changes will still be needed going forward and will continually be analyzing the data. Join us in the forums for discussions on this topic: Tactics Report

This Post:
00
318313.3 in reply to 318313.1
Date: 02/27/2023 12:58:59
Venomous Vicious Vipers
Pro A
Overall Posts Rated:
812812
Second Team:
Veni Vidi Vicious
+1 pt per minute when your starters were on the field, all this while playing away with a lower attitude.. His 2-3 defense has totally been outplayed

This Post:
00
318313.4 in reply to 318313.3
Date: 02/27/2023 19:24:47
Tampines Fusion
SBBL
Overall Posts Rated:
419419
I mean, his players didn't have good game shape and the difference in player level is pretty big so I would probably outplay him even against M2M or 3-2. Just curious how my player who shoots 50 from both field and 3 last season end up missing more than half of his shots and most of his 3s. Even then his numbers also only picked up in the second half or his shooting splits would be worse.

That said, quite a number of them were defended shots as well, I guess it means that even when 2-3 is meant to defend inside offenses, it won't fall when hit by outside offenses as well. That isn't too bad an idea since 3-2 seems to be pretty strong against inside offenses as well. But since 2-3 won't leave your opponent's perimeter players wide open anymore, I wonder if that means that you can use if against any offense like 3-2, and the difference between the two is just a matter of how your players are built?

This Post:
00
318313.5 in reply to 318313.2
Date: 02/27/2023 19:43:29
Tampines Fusion
SBBL
Overall Posts Rated:
419419
The 3FG% was saved by my SF, who miraculously hit 6/9 despite being a .30 outside shooter. But I really don't know how my PG's PP100 can be so high when he's shooting below 40% from the field and barely 20% from 3 (despite being a 50/50/90 player).

I know what 2-3 looks like, it was the go-to defense for my team(s) when I played competitive basketball while in school. But BB doesn't necessarily reflect real life. I was actually wondering what the finer points were. Back before the update, I remembered people once speculated that you'd need enough SB, while both forwards would need OD. Hence it was pretty hard to build for. Back then I've even seen suggestions of 3-2 being more effective against LI than 2-3 because it reduces the probability of driving layups, and that a good outside defense across 1-3 can limit the balls getting into the post (I'm not too sure how valid are these hypotheses but yes I have read of them in the forums before). You know, finer details or tips like these rather than a vague idea of what it is.

Last edited by BuzzRBeater at 02/27/2023 19:43:57

This Post:
00
318313.6 in reply to 318313.4
Date: 02/28/2023 04:55:07
Venomous Vicious Vipers
Pro A
Overall Posts Rated:
812812
Second Team:
Veni Vidi Vicious
I think your best player has been a bit unlucky from the 3pt line. There's a lot of randomness in each game, both IRL and IG, and overall your team did really good.
I don't know exactly how the zone defenses are coded but I think you can have as many defended shots as a man to man defense. As you said, the efficiency of the zone depends on how players are built. For 3-2 you'll need for instance a lot of SB for your PF-C, and in 2-3 you'll need a lot of OD for your SF-PF cause they'll defend a lot of long 2s and 3s

Last edited by slamdunk9 at 02/28/2023 04:55:52

From: Nicolas
This Post:
00
318313.7 in reply to 318313.6
Date: 02/28/2023 07:22:56
Tbilisi Mavericks
Umaglesi Liga
Overall Posts Rated:
6565
Hey guys. What about this game https://buzzerbeater.com/match/122082398/boxscore.aspx
League final 2 seasons ago.
I'm with 2-3 zone, opponent running push the ball, not outside oriented offense, but still shot almost 60% (13/22).
Now to the players what i know. His sg who shot 6/13 threes, has 21-16 js-jr with 19-21 handle/drive. He was defended by my sf, who has 2o-13 od/id with goog handle drives also. Now his pg who went 6/7 on 3s, as i remember when he was on tl he had around 18-15 js/jr. He was defended by my sg, who had 20/12 od/id with good handle/drive as well. In the end basically those 2 guys just torched my 20od guards. Also my sf was with 13 od and my sub for pg/sg with 16 or sth like that od if i remember correctly. Any ideas why things got that ugly ??

This Post:
00
318313.8 in reply to 318313.7
Date: 02/28/2023 08:14:10
Venomous Vicious Vipers
Pro A
Overall Posts Rated:
812812
Second Team:
Veni Vidi Vicious
It wasn't a man to man defense so you can't say his PG was defended by a single of your players. His players shot on whoever was defending each area of your zone.
Apparently his guards were quite strong on the outside while you chose the inside oriented defense. So you'd need probably more OD in the PG-SG-SF-PF positions to compensate.
I'm not a 2-3 specialist but I don't think it's OP and I guess you'll lose often against strong outside offenses (including a push the ball with outside oriented guards)

About this particular game, it's more the rebound difference that is surprising to me, cause I feel like you could have dominated a bit more.

This Post:
00
318313.9 in reply to 318313.8
Date: 02/28/2023 11:35:00
Tbilisi Mavericks
Umaglesi Liga
Overall Posts Rated:
6565
Agree about rebounding, there are lot more strange things in that game. 2 through 5 positions i had 20 IS on all players and that was the outcome in the end. 16 IS vs his 12 ID and my fg % is worse than his. Insane. Also he wasnt defending like 2-3 to say that was the reason.
I also understand its not m2m, but his offense isnt motion, rng or even priceton to shoot 60% on 3s with that much volume. I understand his guards werent scrubs but neither were mine with 20 od, so what i can conclude is that 2-3 tactic update wasnt that helpful when defending outside shots. If he attacked from outside he was supposed to shoot 70% maybe?? Insane. I know its a single game and u cant draw general conclusion, but it definetely doesnt speak about updated 2-3 tactic.

Last edited by Nicolas at 02/28/2023 11:37:37

This Post:
00
318313.10 in reply to 318313.2
Date: 03/01/2023 03:23:18
chicago bulbs II
ESL
Overall Posts Rated:
3535
I would like to know your opinion about 3-2 def. How would attack this kind of def? Push the ball with decent flow and a m2m could be a good setup?

J. Nikuradse
This Post:
00
318313.11 in reply to 318313.10
Date: 03/01/2023 05:57:58
Isca Centurions
EBBL
Overall Posts Rated:
323323
Second Team:
Dartmoor Pumas
I would like to know your opinion about 3-2 def. How would attack this kind of def? Push the ball with decent flow and a m2m could be a good setup?


3-2 boosts the outside defense, so it would usually limit the opponent's three point attempts and other parts of the offense that work from the perimeter.

Your own defensive tactic won't affect that, so if you normally use MM you could continue with that. I've heard mixed opinions on Push The Ball, some like it and some don't. I would say most teams tend to have players that favour certain offenses, so if PTB works well for your players normally then you could try it vs a 3-2.

This Post:
00
318313.12 in reply to 318313.11
Date: 03/01/2023 06:39:24
chicago bulbs II
ESL
Overall Posts Rated:
3535
Thanks. I suppose 3-2 against a bad flow is a good tactic.
Maybe a specular 3-2 and PTB could be great. I think about my next games.

J. Nikuradse
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