BuzzerBeater Forums

For those USA Managers… I think it might be the right time to give Oriolekid his opportunity to take the reigns of the U21 team..
He has show the fortitude to keep running for the U21 Team Manager even after losing the Elections for many seasons.. He has stuck with this game since 2009 so he is well aware of the transitions of the game and has dedicated his time to the valuable resources that the USA
Team Managers have offered on advice and has made an effort to learn as much as he could from the great Managers on the Discord…
So let’s give Oriolekid his opportunity to prove to the USA Managers that he can ….
1 - Incorporate his knowledge of the game and get wins over the strongest teams in the U21 arena 2 - Work with USA Managers in developing a talent pool for future U21 teams 3 - Take our U21 Team to the Gold this season and beyond….

Definitely not hating, but 10 real life years without finishing the arena or making to the NBBA do not bode well for my vote of confidence. I fully appreciate the time you devote to scout our opponents and your willingness to help the U21 but until you can prove the community you have what it takes with your club team and/or having the track record of building top notch players like the other candidates do, my vote goes to them as the former u21 coach.

Love,
G

While I love the passion, some of the things you have said in the debate thread do not sit well with me or my perception of running a U21 team.

First,

But to expand, it’s tough for a u21 to have SB, ID, IS, and Rebounding so you have to pick which one you leave out. I could look long and hard at a 15 IS 13 ID 9 Reb 16 SB guy, for example. My curiosity might demand me to see how he plays.

I would never want to see a 9 REB big on the roster so the fact that your curiosity may make you play such a player is something I cannot get behind.

Next,

Spain's biggest resource is that they have the largest user base in BB. Italy is 2, and we are 3. No shock to see who the 3 best u21 teams are. And we are in 3rd by a bunch.

We need dedicated users, good tactical decisions, and some specialist builds that infiltrate and win against their best when we need them to. We need a manager who can overcome 33% more managers, resources, and players that Spain and Italy have.

I STRONGLY disagree with this. Israel has been one of the more dominant U21 NT and NT programs for awhile now (#1 ranked NT and #5 ranked U21 team) and they have just 186 users. While more users is a benefit, it is not a necessity and we do not have to overcome number of users for USA... there is a constant flux of USA players to pick up and train.

lastly,

It's been 25 seasons since we won a U21 Gold.

As the manager who won the last U21 gold you are speaking about, I have worked much more closely with Antwon and believe he is the best candidate, so I'll be supporting him for U21 coach.

Last edited by E.B.W. at 01/15/2022 14:44:06

Hey Cyborg! It’s been a while.

I have followed this debate pretty closely on Discord. I implore any and all USA managers to get on there if you are not already. Tons of information and idea sharing.

That being said, there have been things said by Oriolekid that are really good but at the same time things that don’t sit well with me. Not going to cast any stones or get into a debate over these issues but this is where I am. Antwon has a proven track record of building beautiful big men for the junior national team, a consistent and steady voice in the game day thread, and a host of extremely seasoned managers in his corner ready to provide assistance in scouting and game day prep. His even toned approach is admirable.

After lengthy and considerable consideration, I will be voting for and fully endorse Antwon for this election.

Not throwing stones here either but wanted to provide my take as well.

I appreciate the enthusiasm for the game and I think a lot of us share that same level of pride in how long we've been a part of the game in some way. I however don't value longevity as a metric of success when it comes to a manager or a coach.

I think the most important aspects that I value in a coach are:

1. The ability to plan and communicate respectfully and thoughtfully with the community.
2. The achievements in the game and understanding of what it takes to win and train U21 level talent.
3. The time to spend managing the team and reaching out to other managers to improve it.

I think you and Antwon both check those boxes. I just think Antwon checks them a bit better. Coming off an NBBA silver a few seasons back and a USA championship silver, he's checked off box #2 better than 99% of USA managers have.

I want to add that I definitely have some bias here because I've known Antwon longer and have talked to him for several years now. But in those conversations he's been nothing but respectful and insightful. Because of these previous experiences with him and his outreach and impact on the U21 program and the Discord for such a long time, I will be voting for him.

That being said, I think both managers would make good coaches. I wish you luck Oriolekid, if not in this election I think you will have your day to be coach eventually. Same with Antwon. Keep going for it y'all, we all see and appreciate the enthusiasm and effort you both put into the game!

P.S. If you are going to bring up Discord messages - 1487 messages in the Discord is quite a lot, but it pales in comparison to the 9217 that Antwon sent or the 22k+ that I have sent. I think it's a completely useless metric, so it doesn't factor into my vote, but it's probably one of the reasons that I am closer with Antwon than I am with you. I can see that being the case for a lot of managers as well.

Last edited by Apex at 01/15/2022 15:48:42

I disagree with you at multiple points. If NBBA or whatever measure of success you use to differentiate, then many U21 and NT coaches would not have won their election You wouldn’t have, as you were still in D2 first election we went against each other. It’s awfully hypocritical to say that when it didn’t matter for you.
And recent u21 players? What?
As far as arena, you got me. I got to 18k and got complacent and didn’t push to 20k+. Getting different peoples perspective on that is why the discord is so great.


Edit: fixed many typos.

Last edited by oriolekid at 01/15/2022 15:40:21

I am the only one who ever gives potential player skills in these elections. They always seem to bite me. I'm 100% sure I'd have been U21 by now if I stop giving potential player builds. Scrimmages exists for a reason. Look at the one U21 has literally on Monday. Those are the games I would watch and experiment with lineups. I'm not starting a 9 Reb guy vs Italy or anyone with a pulse. Fortunately, that player does not exist.

You are dancing around the problem that we haven't won, and that's fine since you aren't the coach anymore. But we've had 8 U21 coaches, most chosen over me. I guess my question is, do you think one of the other candidates get you that Gold? If I lose, I hope Antwon does. I'll try my best to help him. But it's getting so sick and tiring to see other managers fail to achieve what you did, especially when I get passed over.

To deny that we are behind Italy and Spain is arrogance. Pure arrogance.

Love you Yuck. I'm not going to pick yours apart that much since I respect you to the moon and back. Just the one point that seems to be a theme:

NBBA success matters all of a sudden which is sad since that's a very new benchmark, but I digress.

I can respect and agree with this. Very measured and thoughtful.

I've beaten this horse to death by now, so I'll phrase it a different way to you and to others: I hope to one day match wits with you in whatever league so I can finally check off the box so many of you are waiting for.

It has been a long while since we talked. seems like real life has a way of sometimes distancing people… I’m glad to being back, even though I never left but now have more time and looking to get involved and reconnect with the great Managers we have in this community I know which ever manager that gets elected will do a phenomenal job in guiding our U21 to the Championship and winning it for the USA… with the feedback I have seen on this forum, it shows the support for each other in this community but it also shows what it would take to lead the U21 team for our Country… as well I’m sure the National Team… Good Luck to our next U21 Team Manager as I know the entire community will support you as well…
Best….
Mad Scientist

I don't need scrimmages to tell me that opponents bigs having +6 rebounding over our big is not good. USA U21 has historically had a problem trying to get away with less and less rebounding. I do not want to see that reinforced personally.

I think Antwon gets us Gold within the next two Worlds. It is generally my perspective that the new U21 manager deserves two terms to see what they can do. I suspect Antwon will help create one of the best Worlds classes we have seen in a long time for season 59. Season 57 could be hit or miss (I honestly have no idea what the 20 year olds look like this season), but that is of no fault of yours or his if it is a weaker class.

Italy and Spain are ahead of us, I did not deny that. You are arrogant to think that their U21 teams are ahead us because of number of users for their country. That was my point. Did you ignore my fact about Israel (186 users) who is doing just fine for U21 and NT development? You're looking at the number of users as if they play a huge factor for how well a U21 can do, but once you hit 500+ users, there really is no excuse.

Of the 12 teams ranked above the USA for U21 World Rankings, 10 of the 12 have fewer users than the USA. You only get 18 roster spots per season, so if you train 18 amazing prospects, the number of users don't matter...