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One tiny thing I would add to all the great info here is this: if you are looking to train either, it is a no-brainer that it should be stamina and not GS as the latter can be improved through good minute management where as stamina can only be improved through training it...

...and training GS, of course, is usually only done leading into or during finals...

...many mangers just train stamaina once or twice a season (allstar break and end of year) or Stamina during one of these and FT the other...

:-)

Last edited by Mr J at 10/10/2013 6:56:39 AM

Two full 48-minute games? No, but a high ST player is less likely to drop GS playing 72-75 minutes than a low ST player. Also, he needs more minutes in order to improve GS than a low ST player.

Ι've never experienced that, although I have/had players with 8-9 ST. Maybe that's because my subs have good ST too? I use Strictly Depth Chart, which option do you choose? Maybe you put 1 sub for 2 positions?

Ι've never experienced that, although I have/had players with 8-9 ST. Maybe that's because my subs have good ST too? I use Strictly Depth Chart, which option do you choose? Maybe you put 1 sub for 2 positions?

Can you link to some of the games where you're not experiencing that, because I've gone through all of your competitive games this season and half of last so far, and every game you have at least two players with 40+ minutes (except one game where you only have 1, though because your SF and another player who were at 36 and 35 stopped playing in the fourth because of garbage time). My experience is pretty much identical to socks' - I've had players in the past who were almost identical, both of whom had 7+ stamina, and whichever was listed as the starter would play 40 minutes or more unless there was an injury/foul out/garbage time.

We have to go way back to find these kind of games, because now I'm tanking due to training, I field a few players (usually 7 this season) and I use 2 players into 4 sub positions. Sometimes I don't use subs but only reserves to be 100% my players play 44+ minutes.

Let's go some seasons ago, when I had a 10 player roster (actually 9 and a scrub SF). Most of the games back then were blowouts for me, but I found some competitive ones:

(52153290) <- PG get 41 minutes, but there is no actual PG sub
(52135006)
(50151906) <- I told you my sub SF was a scrub, so I think it's normal for this to happen. I also believe that the 4th quarter score is a proof I had really good ST players back then.
(52735193) <- Only 9 players fielded, one sub for PG/SG spot.

It needs 10 players to see good minutes distribution. A guy might get 40-42 minutes, but it's very rare to see that in two matches in a row. But if that happens, a high ST player is able to maintain good GS even with 80-84 minutes in a week (and everyone uses a doctor with the massage trait).

I think all we need to do to understand my point is look at your SG position in those four games. 37, 39, 39 and 39 minutes, in games that you're specifically picking to show that the stamina isn't causing players to be overplayed - and at least two of those four you had a SG that rated nearly as good backing him up. My goal is to always ensure that my players have little enough stamina that they stay under 36 minutes whenever possible - unfortunately, there's no way to get guys to drop stamina effectively enough in the game for my taste. ;)

Maybe if you tried to have your sub player in the reserve spot too? Just a thought, it may be silly, I've never tried it.

IMHO, to get the 36-12 balance of minutes quality matters more than stamina. That's why I said you need a 10 player roster. If your sub is not a scrub it's very likely to be somewhere around there. For my games, rating doesn't reveal everything: As we all know, a player's rating decreases as he spends more time on court. 12.0 for a 9 minute performance compared to 13.0 for a 39 minute performance doesn't mean that players are that close. If the minutes were the other way around the rating would be 10.0 for the sub and 15.0 for the starter.

Maybe if you tried to have your sub player in the reserve spot too? Just a thought, it may be silly, I've never tried it.

IMHO, to get the 36-12 balance of minutes quality matters more than stamina. That's why I said you need a 10 player roster. If your sub is not a scrub it's very likely to be somewhere around there. For my games, rating doesn't reveal everything: As we all know, a player's rating decreases as he spends more time on court. 12.0 for a 9 minute performance compared to 13.0 for a 39 minute performance doesn't mean that players are that close. If the minutes were the other way around the rating would be 10.0 for the sub and 15.0 for the starter.

Which is why I made extra certain to point out earlier that I had two players who were mostly identical, both with 7+ stamina, and whichever one started would always be around 40+ minutes. I had the backup as the reserve also. And this was before I was running a slow offense that rarely turns the ball over and therefore doesn't make it that much harder to get substitutes into the game.

I don't get the last part. Slow tempo tires players much less than high tempo. Try PTB and you'll see much more subs than Patient or Princeton that you're running lately.