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So in saying that, not only would I say DMI is an indicator of how good a player is, but I would say it is the single best indicator available!

I disagree. A player could have 1 high skill and the rest mediocre and he would have a high salary and high dmi but would not be a good player. I think looking at a players game ratings and stats can be a better indicator of how good a player is.

I disagree. A player could have 1 high skill and the rest mediocre and he would have a high salary and high dmi but would not be a good player. I think looking at a players game ratings and stats can be a better indicator of how good a player is.

It's a shame that you an zyler cannot see that with his "scouting program"... ;)

In reality you can see a players skillset when buying a player so that situation is black and white. However you cannot see an opponents skills when scouting, so accurately predicting a players skills is somewhere between impossible and blind luck (proven fact as you well know). If for arguements sake, a player does have 1 high skill and the rest mediocre, that should be reflected in game ratings and stats (but I have the best sg in my league shooting at .368 3fg and my 19 yo trainee pf at .600, so even that has its flaws). Also look at my game against Onski Mooses this season and tell me if Spencer Johnson's stats and rating are a reflection of his skills...

I have used DMI to predict where I can play a weaker player in a position and know that his overall skills will hold up due to the opponents gameshape dropping DMI below my players. Yes you are relying on a player to be somewhat balanced, but usually what sort of players and stategies are best used are determined by what your opponent does as a team, which they generally won't favour tactics that their star players are not suited to. You can't accurately calculate a players skills with DMI (or any method), but what you can do is calculate the effect that gameshape plays on the particular players overall skill opposed to the player you wish to line up against him. As a scouting tool, that is far more valuable (and simple)than a system that guesses 6 of 10 skills (with a 5 pop margin of error in each skill) and getting every primary skill incorrect! ;)

haha I don't use a "scouting program" of any kind :P

I know I certainly can't predict my opponents skills. And I'm not saying that looking at stats in a match is completely reliable as obviously it depends who the opponent was as well.

I like using the DMI to roughly compare players with the same gameshape and the same position. But I don't think that it is "the single most useful indicator".

I like using the DMI to roughly compare players with the same gameshape and the same position. But I don't think that it is "the single most useful indicator".

Well clearly you wouldn't if you have no idea how DMI works. Did you read my first post or just disagree for Zylers sake? lol

Firstly, position has absolutely nothing to do with DMI. Not one single thing. Nor does age, height, religion, hair colour or anything of that description...
Secondly, when you use DMI to compare players with the same gameshape and (even though it's irrelivant) position, what do you find that the players salary doesn't already tell you? The only difference you will find is that 1 may be unusually higher than the others if a player has been trained. Would that not give you a great indication of a players strength opposed to your own?

If you read what I said in my first post (the one you disagreed with) about DMI you might understand, firstly how it works and secondly how it can be used as a guide to deciding a players strength when you face them on gameday.

Last edited by Pablo Ignatio Montoya at 7/21/2010 5:28:06 AM

Also if you are training a player that pops in any skills for the week, you will find that his DMI changes, even if his gameshape stays the same. That is proof that DMI and the strength of a player are related to eachother. It is also a good guide to calculate the players current wage or the wage for the following season in the final weeks of a current season.

How? I don't understand how you go from one to the other. I only see that this shows that training has occurred. Can you explain , please.

A player's salary and/or DMI are only generalizations of how good a player is. For example here are two players:
Player A) salary = 42k DMI = 380000
Jump Shot: sensational Jump Range: proficient
Outside Def.: prominent Handling: prominent
Driving: proficient Passing: respectable
Inside Shot: proficient Inside Def.: prolific
Rebounding: prolific Shot Blocking: respectable
Stamina: inept Free Throw: average

player salary = 63k DMI = 540000
Jump Shot: stupendous Jump Range: proficient
Outside Def.: proficient Handling: strong
Driving: proficient Passing: inept
Inside Shot: inept Inside Def.: respectable
Rebounding: respectable Shot Blocking: awful
Stamina: inept Free Throw: pitiful

Both players have proficient GS. I don't think DMI is a very good indicator of how good a player is. In my mind it is a function of salary and GS and whether or not a player is training, and nothing more.

I didn't say that position influenced DMI. I was saying that there is no use in comparing the DMI of my Center to the DMI of my opponents Point Guard. DMI is heavily linked to salary and gameshape. Centers and Power Forwards generally have higher salary than small guys and consequently have a higher DMI (at least that is what I've noticed).

I don't think that training dramatically increases the DMI. It increases it a little bit, but if the player was on strong gameshape one week and got trained and was still on strong gameshape the next week his DMI could be higher, lower or exactly the same. If it goes higher you don't know if his gameshape went up or he got trained.

Can you give me an example of a player and then explain to me how you judge his strength using his DMI?

I am not talking about how strong a player is in every skill. Notice player 2 has high js adding heavily to his salary. What dmi would do is tell you the overall strength difference if player a was proficient and player b was strong or respectable.

Training increases dmi according to the skill change that would effect the players current salary. I will have to show you when I finish work because it is clear I have to use many examples as the math is quite simple and even though you have the formulas, you still have no concept (yet you still disagree).

Last edited by Pablo Ignatio Montoya at 7/21/2010 4:17:01 PM

Looking forward to seeing the examples.

So in saying that, not only would I say DMI is an indicator of how good a player is, but I would say it is the single best indicator available!

This is what you said. I disagree. You said that at strong GS, the DMI is 7*salary. That would make player b in my example around 440000 DMI if he had GS 8, still higher than player a at 9 GS. Player a would still play circles around player b even if they were both at 9 GS.

DMI is simply a function of GS*salary (not the salary shown but the salary as calculated by the code), modified by training.

Not sure if you have seen this, but I'll post it anyway:

DMI: The overall player index, DMI, gives a very rough indication of how good your player is. This is a good way to check that your player is getting training, but is otherwise a lot less meaningful than it first appears. Be warned!
-Game Manual

Ok, i will say this again. There is no way you can predict a players skillset. You can study match ratings and stats from 2 seasons if you like, but you will never get an accurate reading of a players strengths and weaknesses in his abilities. Therefore the best you can do is work out a players rough ability by his salary, assuming that he is evenly balanced (possibly factoring strengths if stats consistantly favour a certain tendancy ie fg%, fg3%, assists etc).

Since the best (although flawed, still the best) method is a lot of relying on the opponent being relatively balanced, the next biggest factor into a players strength is gameshape. Now it is known to you that gameshape and DMI and salary are relative to eachother, and I know that the game manual plays down DMI (it also says 2-3 zone is increased inside defence even though there is a large number of people who say it is useless), but I will try my best to explain how I use them all together as a scouting tool...

1) DMI=salary calculated by the code. Correct?
2) DMI is affected by gameshape, which is a major factor in a players strength in a match. Correct?
3) DMI is affected by a players skills increasing or decreasing. Correct?

If DMI was only modified by training, then why is it affected by gameshape? When you do the math, it does not always come out exact, but when you consider that gameshape has sublevels it is very close (especially since it is more consistant at Proficient which is the highest point). Now a players DMI is also affected by a pop in skill according to what it would make the players salary if it was reset that day... So with 3 different factors related to a players strength, how do you not see DMI as a guide to how strong an opponent is on gameday?

Lets take your original example. Player B drops to 440000 DMI opposed to 380000 DMI in your opponent. If those players were evenly balanced, I would therefore predict that the difference in gameshape would have made the contest between these 2 players almost a dead heat. Yes, player B would have his arse handed to him, but in the world we live in nobody is priveleged to such information when lining up against an opponent. Now in my experience I would say that the difference in gameshape and the percentages that my theory calculates strength would be pretty much on the money. Feel free to do the math yourself on a few players and see if im making it all up.

So in conclusion to your disbelief of the quote...

So in saying that, not only would I say DMI is an indicator of how good a player is, but I would say it is the single best indicator available!

I would say that there is enough evidence there to prove DMI is an indicator of how good a player is (as also stated in the quote from the game manual), but also just how effective it is in getting the average strength of your player against the strength of your opponent on matchday... If you believe you have a better available system I would like to hear it.