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bahaha you lawyered him :P

Xerxes - these are the same dramatic leaps that Christians make with predictions in the Bible. If you have faith, then they appear obvious. If you don't have the faith, then they appear to be an extreme case of wishful thinking. As usual, it is the faith, rather than the fact, that sustains them.

1) "and it is We who have constructed the heaven with might and verily. It is We who are steadily expanding it" (Qur'an, 51:47). Until the early twentieth century, science had no idea the universe was expanding. This does not say that the universe is expanding, but I can concede that it could be read that way. Heaven and the universe are, however, not the same thing, at all.

2) "By the sky, full of orbits and paths" (Qur'an, 51:7) Who knew that planets were in orbits around the sun and the moon around the Earth? If we did not know about orbits, then where did this word come from? Orbit did not, at that time, refer to anything on this planet. There is no mention here that the planets are orbiting the sun, rather than everything orbiting the Earth, as was common knowledge for quite a long time.

3) "He created the heavens and the earth for Truth He ended the night today and ends day into night." (Quran 39:5). A long and complex explination indicated that this means that the earth is round. It doesn't indicate this at all - night turns into day, and day turns into night. There is no claim here that the earth is round, only that days follow nights and nights follow days.

4) "Glory be to Him who created all in pairs. From what the earth produces, from themselves and from things unknown to them" (Quran 36:36). Matter and anti-matter. More likely referring to the fact that in almost all things natural, apart from some things that can reproduce without a partner, a male and a female are always required - a pair.

5) "No, really, if not stop, we will seize him by the forelock, a lying sinful forelock" (Qur'an, 96: 15-16). In the West they thought the liver or the heart controlled emotions whereas it was revelaed here correctly to be the front of the brain. A forelock is not the front of the brain. It's a tuft of hair. This has nothing to do with the front of the brain.

6) Allah splits the seed and kernel. He brings forth the living from the dead, and produces the dead out of the living. (Qur'an, 6:95) Splitting the atom to create power or bombs. When a seed sprouts, the seed/kernel is split to allow the plant to come out. This has nothing to do with splitting the atom, since that has nothing to do with bringing forth the living from the dead.

7) the moon when it is full, you will mount up stage by stage! Qur'an, 84:18-20) Staged spacecraft to the moon. You must admit this is a very, very long leap.

8) "Their skins will bear witness against them as to what they have been doing" (41:21) Fingerprints. Again, a very long leap. You could as easily claim that it shows an awareness of STDs, since many of them produce a rash on the skin.

9) "Corruption has spread on land and sea because of what men’s hands have wrought" (30:42) Environmental pollution by man. Pollution has been known about for a long time - and this doesn't refer to pollution, but corruption, which could mean either environmental OR moral/human corruption.

10) "And among His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and of whatever living creatures He has spread forth in both. And He has the power to gather them together whenever He pleases." (42:30) Life on other planets. It says "both". Nothing to do with other planets. Other planets are not mentioned at all.

The fact is that none of these "facts" make sense when read in plain language, without the backing of faith.

This highlights the issue of Confirmation Bias, to which Faith leads itself too strongly. It is easy to read into words what you want the meaning to be.

Last edited by Axis123 at 5/17/2011 7:01:31 PM

It is agreed that some of these are indeed a very long bow however taken together it is far from the picture of ignorance Koopasaurus tried to portray. You are all welcome to read things your own way as each man is free to choose his own path, ignorance or enlightenment.

Did anyone see the Herald-Sun today? A typical media atack on Muslims. It was front page news and continued on page 8. The head line on page 8 said "You pay so Muslims feel at home". So "You" the readers are not Muslims and Muslims are not readers. Typical use of inclusive language to exclude Muslims. The article was mainly about schools (but also about food) so did they have a picture of a kindly and wise Muslim teacher, a small schoolgirl with a veil, some enthusiastic students studying their books? No instead is was a scary Muslim man with a knife holding a bone and surrounded by slaughtered animals.

And what "expert" did they get to talk about this issue and have the final say? A member of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry. How is he an expert of Muslim affairs? Did he have anything positive to say? No. Instead he linked Muslisms with extremism, violence, crime and racism. What does that have to do with schools and shops? Is it any wonder some Muslims feel like second class citizens in the Great Nation of Australia?

Okay my comment about that astronomy example was not suppose to be an attack on Muslims. It came about when we were at work and we looked at the sky during the early hours and saw the planets Mercury, Venus and Jupiter in the sky. Apparently we failed to watch the news the night before and we were trying to figure out which planet was which... LOL.. we were suppose to be working but instead we were arguing about planets and religion.

I asked him which planet was the one that was the biggest out of those 3 specs of light, he said Jupiter and I said no that can't be right, it must be Venus since Venus is closer to Earth and its the brightest thing in the sky after the Moon during the night time. Anyways the discussion got to religion when he said something about the planet Earth orbiting into the Sun. This guy is a top bloke and hes very humble... but he did not have a clue about astronomy... that was the point I was trying to make, not trying to diss the Muslims.

And you should not believe everything the media says anyways.. only a handfull of people control the media and hence control what can and can't be published.

It's true. You'll find ignorant people from all walks of life.

The problem with religion, though, is that it sucks ignorant people into believing a whole lot of things that cannot be proven. For me, there isn't that much wrong with believing these things (as long as they do no harm to anyone, which the fundamentals of pretty much all religions preach), but there is something wrong with believing that it is fact and no other options are possible. This restricts freedom of the mind, which, in turn, prevents knowledge from expanding. This is what makes people ignorant in the first place.

And that begins with parenting...

Should wanting-to-be parents have a license before they can have children?

Declaration of human rights states that everyone has the right to have a family and have children, the government shouldn't be tieing us down with beauracratic nonsense like making parents take a test to have children lol.
Religion is great for the world, people aren't lol. Religion instills hope, meaning and happiness in billions around the world. Studies have shown that people that aren't religious are sadder and have a much higher suicide rate.
Although I would argue that you can't definitively prove anything, for example we could be in the matrix right now... :P

Should wanting-to-be parents have a license before they can have children?

one of my mates always wonders how come you need a licence to have a dog or a cat but not a baby?

Sorry I can't agree with that, religion also has had a hand in many of the wars we've experienced and currently battling through to this day. I don't believe that religion is the answer to all our questions and the way to happiness. Most religions whether its western or eastern tend to shun & disrespect other relgions and to me that is enough for me to think that some people who say they are religeous are just hypocrites.
So I'd also like to believe we are in the matrix :)
jw

Last edited by JW at 5/18/2011 7:29:45 AM

Sorry I can't agree with that, religion also has had a hand in many of the wars we've experienced and currently battling through to this day. I don't believe that religion is the answer to all our questions and the way to happiness. Most religions whether its western or eastern tend to shun & disrespect other relgions and to me that is enough for me to think that some people who say they are religeous are just hypocrites.
So I'd also like to believe we are in the matrix :)
jw

Hey mate,
I understand that religion has had a hand in many wars, but so has science. Guns, nuclear weapons, all products of science that man has used for evil. In the same way religion has been used for evil by people. Religion is no more to blame than science is.

I don't think religion is the answer to all our questions either, but there can be no doubt that it answers some questions, and even if religion was completely false, the fact that it makes people happy warrants its existence. Ignorance is bliss after all.

But yes being in the matrix would be cool :D

in the matrix, i own BB, ohhh yeah sweet sweet delusions lol hahahahahah

Sorry I can't agree with that, religion also has had a hand in many of the wars we've experienced and currently battling through to this day. I don't believe that religion is the answer to all our questions and the way to happiness. Most religions whether its western or eastern tend to shun & disrespect other relgions and to me that is enough for me to think that some people who say they are religeous are just hypocrites.
So I'd also like to believe we are in the matrix
jw

Hey mate,
I understand that religion has had a hand in many wars, but so has science. Guns, nuclear weapons, all products of science that man has used for evil. In the same way religion has been used for evil by people. Religion is no more to blame than science is.

I don't think religion is the answer to all our questions either, but there can be no doubt that it answers some questions, and even if religion was completely false, the fact that it makes people happy warrants its existence. Ignorance is bliss after all.

But yes being in the matrix would be cool

Nope.

Science provides a tool. Religion provides a reason.