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I can't believe how hard it is to explain such a simple theory...

I would guess that respectable is closer to 4*S, average is closer to 3*S, and mediocre is aboutr to 2*S.

That is why I said it is "around" the figures I stated. Do the math against all players on your list. You will see that they differ due to sublevels. You do have a player whose is respectable with a DMI pretty much on 4x the salary. Your other respectable is pretty much 3x. So that would factor a 10% swing in skill with the same gameshape if they did have the same skills. Same rules apply for all levels of gameshape with the higher levels being greater affected than the lower ones.

How looking at DMI is any different from looking at GS is a mystery to me still, since A) the number is "give and take" and B) it is dependent on salary as well, which we know is a poor indicator of a player's on-court performance.

Looking at DMI any differently from gameshape is the whole thing I have been trying to explain, yet you don't look past the fact of a players skill. So...
A) The number is "give and take" according to sublevels. I don't know how many times I have to repeat that. I have repeated that many times in this thread, this is the second time in this reply alone and I know that I will have to do it again.
B) YOU DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO AN OPPOSITION PLAYERS SKILL THEREFORE CANNOT FACTOR INTO YOUR SCOUTING. This thread is about DMI and its ability to predict strength... NOT SKILL! It is about predicting a players skill according to the effect current gameshape has on your opponent assuming (which is all you can do) his skills are balanced according to salary!

I suppose if you had reams of data and could accurately predict GS sublevels using it, it might be more helpful (And I admit that it is helpful to some as is) but I haven't ever taken GS sublevels into account in my scouting preparations.

Once again, if you divide a players DMI by his salary you get a number that is relative to his gameshape. How is that not an accurate (provided the player has not been trained in which it would still serve the same purpose of showing the players relative strength) calculation of gameshape sublevels? This is not about some program that claims to predict the absolute foolproof system of scouting. You challenged my theory of DMI being one of the best indicators of strength available when you have not only never bothered to look into it, but you are looking for some bigger picture to prove me wrong when my theory is so simple that anyone could use it... Just because you have never taken GS sublevels into account, does not mean that it is not an effective tool!

Last edited by Pablo Ignatio Montoya at 7/23/2010 2:37:16 AM

But you are basing all your theorycraft on salary -> thus GS 9 @ 10xsalary still gives you no information about how evenly the players skills are distributes.
The only thing DMI actually helps you with, in relation to salary is training. That is also the only thing I use DMI for.

The only thing DMI actually helps you with, in relation to salary is training. That is also the only thing I use DMI for.

if you track the Dmi of your (non trained) players a bit, you could make a good guess about their sub in GS which could help you to find the best lineup.

Also mayn beginners get the tipp to play the highest salary players at the beginning till they have a feeling for the importance of the skills, i believe the DMI is also at this point the better choiche because the reflection of GS isn't bad.

But you are basing all your theorycraft on salary -> thus GS 9 @ 10xsalary still gives you no information about how evenly the players skills are distributes.

I will repeat myself one last time and then I am done with this thread...

What I said is I believe you can use DMI as a guide to work out the approximate effect that gameshape and its sublevels will have on a player for scouting purposes. I have never claimed it to predict a players skill, only that it can be used as an indication of the strength on match day. I have said several times that it is not an exact scouting tool, but it is useful and I believe it to be the most useful available.

This has got out of hand with people thinking that I am claiming to have cracked the game engine through DMI and its relativity to gameshape and salary. I am tired of trying to explain the same thing time and time again.

First of all, using all caps in the forums is not allowed. Thanks for respecting the rules of the forums.

No. What you said was this:

So in saying that, not only would I say DMI is an indicator of how good a player is, but I would say it is the single best indicator available!

I disagreed with that statement. Had you said,

"What I said is I believe you can use DMI as a guide to work out the approximate effect that gameshape and its sublevels will have on a player for scouting purposes. I have never claimed it to predict a players skill, only that it can be used as an indication of the strength on match day. I have said several times that it is not an exact scouting tool, but it is useful and I believe it to be the most useful available."

I wouldn't have even replied to this thread.

Moving forward, I don't use it because it is enough for me to see a guy's GS. I don't do my scouting based on salary, and DMI is a multiple of salary*GS, so for me it is enough to look at his GS. You have a valid point about reading the sublevels from DMI, maybe. The training variability and unknown factor must be taken into account and that makes it a bit less of a sure thing, along with the fact that it can swing from at least 2.6*S (my lowest respectable this week) to 4.0*S(my highest respectable) or that a proficient player can be 7.71*S and a strong player can be 8.9*S. This leads me to believe that it is far more random than you believe it to be.