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Not gay!

Look at it another way, tell me which of the players is most valuable.
Assume they all played the same number of minutes and are equal in every way other than presented below.

Player 1: Opponent shot 0-0
Player 2: Opponent shot 0-1
Player 3: Opponent shot 0-2
Player 4: Opponent shot 0-3
Player 5: Opponent shot 0-4
Player 6: Opponent shot 0-5
Player 7: Opponent shot 0-6
Player 8: Opponent shot 0-7
Player 9: Opponent shot 0-8
Player 10: Opponent shot 0-9
Player 11: Opponent shot 0-10
Player 12: Opponent shot 0-11
Player 13: Opponent shot 0-12
Player 14: Opponent shot 0-13
Player 15: Opponent shot 0-14
Player 16: Opponent shot 0-15
Player 17: Opponent shot 0-16
Player 18: Opponent shot 1-17

Which player was most valuable?

Player 17: Opponent shot 0-16

^ that one.

I also don't see how this helps your argument. But I'll wait for the explanation

Last edited by Leeroy at 5/13/2011 8:17:29 PM

Sorry I should have rephrased my question. Which one of those players is the minimum to be better than the 1-17.

You're looking at it the wrong way still.

Player 1: Opponent shot 0-0 (prevented 0 points)
Player 2: Opponent shot 0-1 (prevented 2 points)
Player 3: Opponent shot 0-2 (prevented 4 points)
Player 4: Opponent shot 0-3 (prevented 6 points)
Player 5: Opponent shot 0-4 (prevented 8 points)
Player 6: Opponent shot 0-5 (prevented 10 points)
Player 7: Opponent shot 0-6 (prevented 12 points)
Player 8: Opponent shot 0-7 (prevented 14 points)
Player 9: Opponent shot 0-8 (prevented 16 points)
Player 10: Opponent shot 0-9 (prevented 18 points)
Player 11: Opponent shot 0-10 (prevented 20 points)
Player 12: Opponent shot 0-11 (prevented 22 points)
Player 13: Opponent shot 0-12 (prevented 24 points)
Player 14: Opponent shot 0-13 (prevented 26 points)
Player 15: Opponent shot 0-14 (prevented 28 points)
Player 16: Opponent shot 0-15 (prevented 30 points)
Player 17: Opponent shot 0-16 (prevented 32 points)
Player 18: Opponent shot 1-17 (prevented 32 / allowed 2 points)

The more points a player prevents, the more possessions are wasted (because possessions in a game are limited).

The more possessions (empty trips), the less points a team will score as a total. It doesn't matter if a player shoots 10-40, even if he scored 25 points, the defender still did a magnificent job in defending them.

16 empty trips (player 17) is the best, player 18 is 2nd best, 16 can be a tie with 18 and then it goes up the chart..

I don't understand how you could think Player 18 is better than player 15.
Player 15 has prevented 28 points and allowed none.
Player 18 has prevented 32 points and allowed 2 points.
Surely player 15 is better.

At the end of the game it doesn't matter how many times your opponent missed, it only matters how many times your opponent scored. And scoring is what you want to minimize.
Making your opponents miss most shots is great, but not as great as making your opponent miss EVERY shot.

What do you mean by possessions in a game are limited? Do you mean simply because there is a time limit?
Let me try and explain this differently, if every player on team A kept the opponent to 0-8, and every player on Team B kept the opponent to 1-17, then which team is going to win? Obviously Team A is going to win because the other team didn't score any points, but Team B will let 2 points * the number of players on the team.

I'm going to have to say it again.

This is a silly discussion.

True, I think it is a sign of the great philosophical differences between these two players.

I am enjoying sitting on the fence for this one.

It's still a friendly debate.. for now

Waiting for someone to start throwing sticks and calling someone names

haha it may be silly, but it's a relaxing Saturday arvo so I'm not too fussed :P
Plus it is a civil friendly discussion, and if people never discussed a difference of opinion then we'd never change or grow or learn, we'd simply be stagnant.