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But we can say that if a defender kept 2 players 1-17 from the field in a game, that's more impressive than if they kept an opponent 0-8, purely because they stopped more shots (16 stops vs 8)

Well this is pretty much personal opinion more than anything. I'd say lets Maths do the talking, there's no personal feeling involve.

But he allowed 2 points. At the end of the day it doesn't matter how many points are stopped, it only matters how many points you fail to stop because those are the points that make up your opponents score.

By stopping 16 shots he thwarted 16 offensive possessions regardless of how many points were scored. That's a potential 32 points stopped, as opposed to 16 points and 8 possessions.

That's what I think anyways.

A wise man once said "that nothing will withstand the force on constant analysis" - i believe this discussion is a perfect example of this!

No hard feelings :)

No hard feelings lol

Not gay!

Look at it another way, tell me which of the players is most valuable.
Assume they all played the same number of minutes and are equal in every way other than presented below.

Player 1: Opponent shot 0-0
Player 2: Opponent shot 0-1
Player 3: Opponent shot 0-2
Player 4: Opponent shot 0-3
Player 5: Opponent shot 0-4
Player 6: Opponent shot 0-5
Player 7: Opponent shot 0-6
Player 8: Opponent shot 0-7
Player 9: Opponent shot 0-8
Player 10: Opponent shot 0-9
Player 11: Opponent shot 0-10
Player 12: Opponent shot 0-11
Player 13: Opponent shot 0-12
Player 14: Opponent shot 0-13
Player 15: Opponent shot 0-14
Player 16: Opponent shot 0-15
Player 17: Opponent shot 0-16
Player 18: Opponent shot 1-17

Which player was most valuable?

Player 17: Opponent shot 0-16

^ that one.

I also don't see how this helps your argument. But I'll wait for the explanation

Last edited by Leeroy at 5/13/2011 8:17:29 PM

Sorry I should have rephrased my question. Which one of those players is the minimum to be better than the 1-17.

You're looking at it the wrong way still.

Player 1: Opponent shot 0-0 (prevented 0 points)
Player 2: Opponent shot 0-1 (prevented 2 points)
Player 3: Opponent shot 0-2 (prevented 4 points)
Player 4: Opponent shot 0-3 (prevented 6 points)
Player 5: Opponent shot 0-4 (prevented 8 points)
Player 6: Opponent shot 0-5 (prevented 10 points)
Player 7: Opponent shot 0-6 (prevented 12 points)
Player 8: Opponent shot 0-7 (prevented 14 points)
Player 9: Opponent shot 0-8 (prevented 16 points)
Player 10: Opponent shot 0-9 (prevented 18 points)
Player 11: Opponent shot 0-10 (prevented 20 points)
Player 12: Opponent shot 0-11 (prevented 22 points)
Player 13: Opponent shot 0-12 (prevented 24 points)
Player 14: Opponent shot 0-13 (prevented 26 points)
Player 15: Opponent shot 0-14 (prevented 28 points)
Player 16: Opponent shot 0-15 (prevented 30 points)
Player 17: Opponent shot 0-16 (prevented 32 points)
Player 18: Opponent shot 1-17 (prevented 32 / allowed 2 points)

The more points a player prevents, the more possessions are wasted (because possessions in a game are limited).

The more possessions (empty trips), the less points a team will score as a total. It doesn't matter if a player shoots 10-40, even if he scored 25 points, the defender still did a magnificent job in defending them.

16 empty trips (player 17) is the best, player 18 is 2nd best, 16 can be a tie with 18 and then it goes up the chart..