BuzzerBeater Forums

I will be honest here. I didn't read both of your posts with great attention.

I'll be honest myself, I don't think you ever do. I read yours though. I read every post I reply to. I feel its more respectful that way.

Many people accused Utopia to have had a bad effect on the market prices. I let those people imagine what 1000 teams with economy from D1/D2 would have done to the market prices instead of mostly teams in D3 and D4.

I'll let you imagine what you want. You've no idea what that would have done, and you can't imagine it would be the same as utopia, similar to it, or completely different. Or even how many users would have bought a new team under those circumstances, because it didn't happen.

Now I think this thread is about Salary floor, not Utopia.

As I said, I read your posts, and you often do this. State your case and attempt to make it the last word by blocking replies by insinuating you'll delete anything off topic that follows. I recommend if you do that, then you go through this thread and delete everything slightly off topic, and then go through every other thread on here and do the same. Otherwise I'll just continue to regard it as another attempt to close down something you don't like.

Overall, Utopia ended up exceeding our expectations and for the most part it has been quite well received.

That's your opinion, and you have a right to it, but that doesn't mean it's factual.

With regards to the Utopia decision your judgement seems to be clouded by a strong bias

I have already admitted to this so well done for noticing.

you're retroactively trying to make it seem like that was by far the superior and most desired option

Nonsense. I'm retroactively stating that that is what I believe. You can believe differently but that doesn't make me wrong, or as you imply, that I'm altering facts. (Saying make it seem implies I'm lying. That is a very disappointing slur. I might be wrong, but I say what I believe. If you don't believe that, then why ask me to believe you're sincere?)

Regardless, as Perpete is getting at, the change was made and there's no point having a big debate about the issue now.

And from your earlier post in this thread:

The BB staff has been mostly stagnant on the micro-nation issue for a while now, but there have been some recent pushes to get something done on that front. Just so people don't freak out, it should be known that nothing will change without first receiving massive amounts of feedback from the BB community, and specifically the micro-nation communities.

You brought that up, not me. Are you reading this Perpete? I know he's not, so perhaps you BB-Ryan could point out to our non reading EGM that you were the one who took us off topic, thereby allowing me surely to respond. I chose Utopia as the highest profile attempt to get massive amounts of feedback from the community, and one where I honestly believe the community was ignored.

I don't honestly remember the community being consulted about much else but I'm sure you and Perpete can refresh my memory. Well if someone asks Perpete for me.

Unlike you I've tried not to snip huge great chunks out of what you say, and just pick out little soundbites you can attack.

Or perhaps like Perpete you didn't read the whole thing. It wouldn't surprise me, I'm more surprised you actually replied to me this time.

I don't know if you're having a bad day or you've got an axe to grind, but the negativity and hostility isn't necessary.

An opposite opinion is not by definition hostile. But yes, I admit when I'm told I'm off topic for responding to something said by a BB, then yes, I can sometimes be hostile.

I'm going to follow your example but just snipping the rest of what you said as it really doesn't alter anything I've said already. I'm not really sure if you haven't read what I said, or didn't understand it, because the quote you use:

You brought that up, not me.

is so badly edited simply so you can repeat the very thing I've already replied to.

I really do believe the intention of the staff here is to quash opinions that don't fit with theirs, by labelling those who post as negative or hostile. And of course, the fallback position of being off topic, when its often the staff who start to go off topic, as in this case. Not to mention the dismissive notion that its the same few voices saying the same things when it clearly isn't.

One thing I'd like to make clear. I don't post here out of malice. I don't waste my time on games that I dislike. I've played for a long time, I was an NT coach in England for many seasons, I've helped plenty of people in England in ways large and small, and I have many posts here that reek of positivity and calm. I'm not saying that because it should make you respect me or my view but it should be clear that I enjoy this game immensely, and if I post something negative, its because I care about where the game is, and where its going.

Also, if you have any other ideas on how to improve the situation for micronations, we're listening.

Stay tuned.

I hope some reasonable measures will be found. Any progress in this area should be good.

On the other hand knowing BB and the tendency to always choose the worst compromise, I don't expect too much. Will eat crow though, if some revolutionary soltution is found.

True, but I can count five times in your post that you were needlessly sarcastic and/or negative.

When the staff stop being needlessly sarcastic I'll consider it myself. Though I'm afriad my attempts to amuse myself do sometimes overwhelm my attempts. As for negativity, well sometimes that creeps into a disagreement. I apologise if I went too far.

If you believe that there's probably not much I can do to change your mind. However, you were being negative and hostile. This entire conversation unfolded because you made a needlessly sarcastic comment about a change that was made over two years ago, and at best it was only loosely on topic as you took a small message about micro-nations and turned it into a shot against Utopia.

It was in response to your comment about BBs consulting users, which you did with Utopia, not specifically the micro nation issue, with which I agree its not linked at all. So I disagree strongly with you saying its tenuous.

I believe that, but I don't agree that posting snide and sarcastic remarks accomplishes anything other than a negative atmosphere. Sure, it can show your displeasure with a certain issue, but it's not constructive. Other than perhaps a sense of self-satisfaction there's nothing to be gained by it. It only creates animosity and ill will.

Again, its difficult when dealing with snide and sarcastic comments from staff not to reply in kind, especially when that is a common thread with certain people. Until staff stop it, you can't really expect anything less from users. Your again using my clear dislike of Utopia to cloud the issue. I repeat that Utopia points to what I feel about BBs attempts to consult the user base. I accept we don't agree about it, but if you're going to repeat your assertions, then you can't really ask me not to.

Nothing I have said here has given me a sense of self satisfaction. You don't have any reason to say that, and no evidence to point to what I feel. When you say things like that all you do is create animosity and ill will. (Yes, that's sarcastic, but its a response to what I feel is a direct insult so I don't really care.)

I'm not really willing to spend any more time arguing over tiny details of my post, while the larger issues at hand are ignored. Again, I think its common for the staff to involve users in arguing over who said what and why, in an attempt to cloud or even directly ignore the point of a post or thread.

I didn't even want to post this, I've already said what I think, you've said you disagree, but frankly I feel rather insulted.

When the staff stop being needlessly sarcastic I'll consider it myself...

Again, its difficult when dealing with snide and sarcastic comments from staff not to reply in kind, especially when that is a common thread with certain people. Until staff stop it, you can't really expect anything less from users.

I think its common for the staff to involve users in arguing over who said what and why, in an attempt to cloud or even directly ignore the point of a post or thread.

+100 ! Well said, GullyFoyle, and I applaud your courage at speaking out.

I hope Marin sees this and takes it to heart, because he's the only one with the power to clean up the forum behavior of some of his people.