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Poor BB´s that will be a loooooong day for them .

Fair enough, but I have a question. You say,

my personal issue is that they asked us what we want and they ignored the answer.

It seems to me that perpete has examined and addressed every workable suggestion for pros and cons. What workable answer do you think they are ignoring?

When Marin first talked about second team it was long discussed as second team to be part of micronations, then all of the sudden they went for Utopia in an instant.
However, I did not say i had the absolute truth, and that one may have been more workable than the other. That, we cannot know, at least not so easily. Does not matter much now, but still would love to see how they will improve the game.

Yeah but in that case the people vocally opposing the second team in a location of preference were people from small nations (probably a small minority of them, but this was never assessed). With the first team in the main nation checks for GMs shouldn't be too hard, so giving us both Utopia and the possibility to move the second team in a smaller nation could have still been done. I think a lot of managers would still choose to go in Utopia, but others would go into micronations, and in micronations, 5-10 competing extra users might make a significant difference for the game to be more enjoyable.

Yeah but in that case the people vocally opposing the second team in a location of preference were people from small nations (probably a small minority of them, but this was never assessed). With the first team in the main nation checks for GMs shouldn't be too hard, so giving us both Utopia and the possibility to move the second team in a smaller nation could have still been done. I think a lot of managers would still choose to go in Utopia, but others would go into micronations, and in micronations, 5-10 competing extra users might make a significant difference for the game to be more enjoyable.

For me, this is exactly what would make me happy.

I think a lot of managers would still choose to go in Utopia, but others would go into micronations, and in micronations, 5-10 competing extra users might make a significant difference for the game to be more enjoyable.

This both excites me and worries me. IF it were limited - as you appear to be suggesting - to 5-10 extra users, I could go with that.
An influx of that size wouldn't water down the nation to being what would amount to Utopia.2 - but more than that would start to shift the balance towards being a league with no real national identity (cue someone to discuss the hypocrisy of a non-Japanese person speaking about identity... but we DO identify with Japan!).

What we have had is tanking for several seasons. At ~4 mill that works out to ~20 mil after 5 years which allows you to buy a young team of superstars. That is hard to compete with by incremental improvement. This (probably) doesn't arise in larger nations because of relegation

My son some how manages to remember to log in once a month and currently has just under 17 mill in the bank.

In Australia the highest he has been is Div II but he has spent most of his time in Div III

Look, with all due respect, do you really think a lot of people would come playing in a micronation? I think most users who would come play in japan, would come only because they can have a better shot at being in DI with all the advantages that come along with it. Once you have a fully operational and reasonable participation in DII (so that there is promotion/demotion from DI) I think the interest in micronations decreases dramatically. At any rate yeah maybe they could just limit the number of foreign teams so that it can't go over a certain level. At any rate this would greatly benefit smaller nations U21/NT as the pool of available players would be substantially larger.

I can see more of a problem in larger nations like Italy, where you would suddenly have more experienced managers coming into DV and making it more difficult for many Italian managers to promote. So for a larger nation and for more competition you should really go in Utopia.

Also there is the problem that 2nd teams are by nature more prone to go bot (you have to pay $10 for less than 5 seasons and may not renew that), so if you allow people to have a second team in another nation instead of Utopia, you should make sure they are encouraged to keep it for a reasonable amount of time and that they can't change where they play for a number of season (perhaps establish penalties on arena if you ask and are granted to move to a different nation, like remove half or 2/3 of the seats you built).

Well tanking could be made more difficult, if they really wanted to. Just put increasing penalties to gate receipts if your team keeps sucking every season (meaning instead of just the previous season the fan survey uses an average of previous seasons and is much lower if you were bad for several seasons). Also increase fan mood of the team if you're close to the average payroll of your league, so that if you're massively below (close or below the salary floor) again your gates are reduced more than they are today. This isn't the right thread to discuss tanking though, I'm afraid I'm going off topic :).



Last edited by Lemonshine at 1/26/2015 5:10:26 AM

Look, with all due respect, do you really think a lot of people would come playing in a micronation?

From my experience in HT, where they did exactly this... yeah. I think heaps. Oman (my 2nd team league) went from a barely-full 2 divisions to a very active 4. There were other micro-nation leagues that filled faster (Oman was 2nd on my list - 1st being Jamaica), and I was lucky to get into Oman.

Yeah but that's because to play in higher level divisions. Most managers claimed to want more competition, not less in the Utopia discussion, hence you'd assume they would not want to go in a micronation.

In any case they could just limit it as well on a first come first serve basis, so you don't overrun the community with too many foreign managers. I think a minimum of 1*16+4*2=24 teams should be present in any nation though. Once you get to that number, you'd need to keep a reasonable ratio between local and foreign. I'd also lock the access for foreign managers if most D2 are filled.

Of course, they should do on a first come first serve basis.