BuzzerBeater Forums

That's all right. I understand that this is a problem, but there must be a way to assess the situation. The only other way is to objectively assess the turnover statistically as a percentage of the total population.

I was trying to say that your position seems more like, there is no solution, because there is no perfect solution. I think what needs to be assessed is whether an 'imperfect' change is better than no change. Also if you make a case for deleting 0 user nations why not do that for sub 10 or sub 15 (less than a league worth of users)?

The cup idea is a good idea, but not sure it's worth the effort. If numbers keep reducing in these microleagues some other step will still be necessary.

especially having had my first taste of B3 last season!!!

Congratulations about that

It's simply a reality of the majority of pastimes that eventually, we move on. For the most part.

I think we all agree on this. The same way we all agree that if the system is indeed responsible for accelerating this process, the system should be tweaked and changed, where possible, so that it produces fewer negative effects. What you are disputing and arguing about with Trainerman is whether the system does have worse results in micronations than normal nations.

is Japan even really a micro with supposedly 20 users? In the past 10-or-fewer has been 'micro'...

This is a point I agree with. I think 20 is borderline, I'd define micro as having 16 or fewer managers (less than a league worth) just for the sake of keeping it simple.

artly because of the way to access my team is rather convoluted (surely we could have an ever-present button on every page to switch) and cumbersome, but also partly because of the generic identity Utopia has.

Actually I completely agree on both points. The sense of community should be encouraged since it is actually one of the main drivers for user retention. I like that Marin, Perpete and Nickleon decided to do the question time weekly, getting people involved in the forums and in their home nation is great. Boosting numbers, if they ever decide to take 'extreme' actions (to use Perpete terminology :p) in that respect, would very likely improve this aspect as well.





Last edited by Lemonshine at 1/23/2015 7:29:07 PM

I do believe we are suffering from the exact same thing as the HT GM is explaining

That we are indeed.

Ok apologies for misrepresenting your position. I think we mostly agree (even Malice and Trainerman) that some action will need to be taken at some point as running full bot leagues (and very small nations more likely to end up as full bot nations than blooming) doesn't make much sense.

To be honest I hope that the HT experiment Manon mentioned shows that an app can be successful in strengthening the userbase and BuzzerBeater goes in the same direction and with an even bigger success. This will automatically remove the micronation problem in a lot of cases.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 1/23/2015 8:09:58 PM

I didn't give threshold numbers to which nations could be deleted. In fact, I don't really care about Pakistan who never had enough users. When I'm talking about deleting nations as a possible solution (from an external POV), I'm talking about the nations under 20 (or any other threshold). With some thinking of course.

So how about a policy to not add new users in Pakistan or other 0 user countries. Put them in the nearest country. Some of our users are from Bangladesh and Sri Lanka; we could add Pakistan also.

Ok apologies for misrepresenting your position. I think we mostly agree (even Malice and Trainerman) that some action will need to be taken at some point as running full bot leagues (and very small nations more likely to end up as full bot nations than blooming) doesn't make much sense.

To be honest I hope that the HT experiment Manon mentioned shows that an app can be successful in strengthening the userbase and BuzzerBeater goes in the same direction and with an even bigger success. This will automatically remove the micronation problem in a lot of cases.

First part - the "full bot leagues" doesn't really concern me, as I really don't know the implications or situations involved - that is a BB/GM issue. I don't think that Nippon fits into that category at all. It's a "smaller nation"... but it has a strong core of fairly dedicated managers, with a reasonably strong div 1 (regardless of disparagement that may occur) and NT/U21 programs that perform relatively well...

Second part, I've been on HT for a number of years now (apparently, I started 8th of August, 2011), and have the HT app... I use it sparingly. Well... ok: not at all. I've found with a smartphone it's significantly easier to just use a browser. I don't see it as the Grail everyone believes it to be.

Last edited by malice at 1/23/2015 9:30:30 PM

I don't see it as the Grail everyone believes it to be.

I have this doubts as well, however I've no idea what else would be more effective in luring new players.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 1/23/2015 9:37:17 PM

especially having had my first taste of B3 last season!!!

Congratulations about that

Cheers. Playing again this season - but my draw is absolutely hideous. I think I'll probably perform worse than last season.

It's simply a reality of the majority of pastimes that eventually, we move on. For the most part.

I think we all agree on this. The same way we all agree that if the system is indeed responsible for accelerating this process, the system should be tweaked and changed, where possible, so that it produces fewer negative effects. What you are disputing and arguing about with Trainerman is whether the system does have worse results in micronations than normal nations.

My concern is that you would actually lose more users. Hypothetical (because I'm too lazy to look up actual numbers): is it better for the game to combine a group of 6 nations with say... an average user-base of 18 - make them into a single group and end up with 78 users and lose players because of the loss of an identity? Having started at the very end of S14, (whilst not as long as some) I guess I now fit in the category of "die-hard", and I'm quite active. My interest levels would be diminished if I were to be put into a "Eastern Asia" grouping, losing our national identity. What then of currently peripheral players? Sure, the resulting competition might be a stronger league... but you just lost 25% of that geographical region's population, and are even less likely to be able to attract more users (not addressing any inherent issues of the amalgamation)!

I've said this over and over, but *new-player-placement* is a far, far bigger issue (and MUCH simpler fix!) than any supposed problem of smaller nations. If we want to talk about how to improve player retention, sign me up. But wielding a hammer on already existing nations isn't part of that.