BuzzerBeater Forums

I do agree there is not many people in micronations (hence the name), but if you allow some of those managers to play elsewhere, there will be even less people in those nations, bleeding them even more.

That is not a solution for the micronations, that is a solution for some users.

There you are, the heart of the matter.

Ball for you, Mike.

Ok then let me reprhase: there is no solution without extreme effects. We don't want extreme effects so there is no solution. This is one side of the argument.

I'd like to know what the other managers in nations with less than 20 users think, but I buy Trainerman's argument that forcing people to play in a place where they get a bad experience is not very good for business and that the majority would prefer to have some kind of extra flexibility.

I just don't understand. We don't want people to be allowed to relocate because there will be even fewer people playing in that country (don't remember if it was you or Malice) and make the problem bigger, however if people are allowed to relocate from 20 or less user nations, the people staying back, like Malice, would stay back because they enjoy playing in those circumstances.

I think the only real solution is to boost the number of users or allow for some flexibility, but, again, it's not for me to say so. We got 2 countries without users, I think it's only a matter of time till the next one.

so while I accept the "it's not great, but if there is no solution leave it as it is" take from Malice, I don't think people in 100+ nations are qualified to tell those who live there how they game experience should be. It's for the BBs and the users in those (micro)nations to decide that. Here you have a fundamental difference between 2 views and both claim to represent the majority.

A few things...
- I agree on 100+ nation folk not really understanding or indeed needing to...
- Hold a sec on the "both-claim-to-represent" crap. I have repeatedly stated that I do not know what others think... just offering a different point of view to the other side of the coin that says they do (and then largely refers to people who are no longer here).

In all likelihood, and some point I'll bail on BB. Not soon, that's for sure - I'm still enjoying the game (especially having had my first taste of B3 last season!!!). But it's inevitable for 99% of users. It's a very small group of users who can't seem to walk away, no matter what.
It's simply a reality of the majority of pastimes that eventually, we move on. For the most part.

There is one side (Trainerman) proposing a solution. There is another side saying they recognise the problem but dismissing any solution. I don't see any constructive criticism from this second side.

That's a bit of a misrepresentation...
I think that the flipside of the *solution* on offer from wolph (combining current micros into a regional conglomerate - is Japan even really a micro with supposedly 20 users? In the past 10-or-fewer has been 'micro'...) would result in fewer teams than the current sum of those nations. I can only speak for myself, but if that were the solution, I think my interest would wane considerably.
I like being a part of something, I'm actively involved in the community (for all the disparagement wolph gives that) - on another browser-based sports game I am happy to be the 8th ranked team in Kyushu! I've found Utopia takes far more of an effort... partly because of the way to access my team is rather convoluted (surely we could have an ever-present button on every page to switch) and cumbersome, but also partly because of the generic identity Utopia has. It's not as interesting as my home nation. Yes, I do understand that this is my opinion, and may not be one shared by others. I'm cool with that.

Wolph's a kind of special situation. I honestly think he should be allowed to play in the US... 'expats' are a bit of a wrinkle... but ultimately - that's a decision for the BBs (one they appear to have already made).

On voting... in my limited experience, the vast majority of users (of all nations) in BB tend to be not that active on the forums. Or voting (I know that from the results of our NT elections). I would be very careful about having the future of BB for a significant number of users be determined by a very vocal minority.

Last edited by malice at 1/23/2015 7:03:55 PM

That's all right. I understand that this is a problem, but there must be a way to assess the situation. The only other way is to objectively assess the turnover statistically as a percentage of the total population.

I was trying to say that your position seems more like, there is no solution, because there is no perfect solution. I think what needs to be assessed is whether an 'imperfect' change is better than no change. Also if you make a case for deleting 0 user nations why not do that for sub 10 or sub 15 (less than a league worth of users)?

The cup idea is a good idea, but not sure it's worth the effort. If numbers keep reducing in these microleagues some other step will still be necessary.

especially having had my first taste of B3 last season!!!

Congratulations about that

It's simply a reality of the majority of pastimes that eventually, we move on. For the most part.

I think we all agree on this. The same way we all agree that if the system is indeed responsible for accelerating this process, the system should be tweaked and changed, where possible, so that it produces fewer negative effects. What you are disputing and arguing about with Trainerman is whether the system does have worse results in micronations than normal nations.

is Japan even really a micro with supposedly 20 users? In the past 10-or-fewer has been 'micro'...

This is a point I agree with. I think 20 is borderline, I'd define micro as having 16 or fewer managers (less than a league worth) just for the sake of keeping it simple.

artly because of the way to access my team is rather convoluted (surely we could have an ever-present button on every page to switch) and cumbersome, but also partly because of the generic identity Utopia has.

Actually I completely agree on both points. The sense of community should be encouraged since it is actually one of the main drivers for user retention. I like that Marin, Perpete and Nickleon decided to do the question time weekly, getting people involved in the forums and in their home nation is great. Boosting numbers, if they ever decide to take 'extreme' actions (to use Perpete terminology :p) in that respect, would very likely improve this aspect as well.





Last edited by Lemonshine at 1/23/2015 7:29:07 PM

I do believe we are suffering from the exact same thing as the HT GM is explaining

That we are indeed.