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What's the price if somebody proves you are wrong? Put your money where your mouth is.

Your obsession with farm teams is mad. As a rough estimate the game recycles a couple thousand managers every few months. Some sign in once and never come back and some stay for a few months before giving it up. But the numbers dictate that most top players will start on lower teams. Its not rocket science since there are more lower division teams drafting.

If I look back on my teams outward transfers, most of the teams that bought my players have gone bot. Eventually most teams go bot. That is the nature of the game. Marin might have more concrete stats but such high turnover of managers its inevitable.

We all know the ranking aren't the most accurate but i'm ranked 14000 out of 20000 and my team really isn't very good.. Which suggests there could be up to 4000/5000 teams on BB who pretty much aren't playing or are newbies.Plus the teams from top divisions that go bot?!

Former managers going bot does not mean players are farmed.

I could go through B3 players, track their draft teams and training teams and prove you are barking up the wrong tree but it would just prove that you really can't argue with stupid.

Exactly! What's the point in training a player that you sell for the same price it cost you to get your trainer in the first place..not to mention salaries and inability to be competitive in your league..and lets say you DO make profit ,well you probably end up making more by training average players for few seasons...

Last edited by World Domination at 11/07/2015 02:23:56

Well, I feel that I promised you to make a data, which you want. So here I am. I should have done it much earlier, but it's time to finally do something

So I would like to consider 2 biggest Polish clubs of last seasons, Mloty Stargard, and Superligota. I believe, that they are top B3 teams: Mloty made the semifinal in this season, and Superligota was able to advance to this round season earlier.

Before I start the analyse of Mloty, I would like to quote, how your analyse of this team looks (source: (273660.24)):

Mloty Stargard
Tonko 139k PF FAd, FAd, starts career with 2 botted trainers...nuff said!
Sun 112k PF drafted/trained in low division, later in career did the FA dance. One of the more legit players on the team....
HIlary 102k PF drafted by bot, FAd by buyer after farmed in DIV, maybe GMs know what happend here!
Mitar 71k SF drafted/trained in bottom division of his nation.
MO 80k PF drafted by cash cow, trained by now bot team. Probably one of the more legit players on the team.
Camilo 78k PG drafted DivIV trained by team now bot- went FA
Tzur 71k SF drafted by DV bot, FAd twice!!!
Yalin 54k PF drafted then FAd farm trained DIV, suprise...FAd!

Without FA system this team really can't be built. Low salaries, high TSP, high reliance on bottom division draft/training.

"immediately moved to XYZ" means "never played in this team, before he had been bought by XYZ"

MŁOTY STARGARD
(in Polish top league since S19)

Sun Xiangui

drafted by 蜀都王国 (S18-S28)
S18-S24 Chinese 4th league
S24-S28 Chinese 3rd league
now playing in Chinese 2nd league

moved to 蜀都王国 (S28-S30)
S28-S30 Chinese top league, stays here until now

moved to Mloty (S30-S32)

Camilo Valerio Antigua

drafted by DukeNook, immediately moved to ASC Torooo (S18-S28)
S18 Brazilian 3rd league
S19-S22 Brazilian 2nd league
S23-S27 Brazilian top league
S28 Brazilian 2nd league
get botted in S29

moved to Foenix Suns (S29)
S29 Australian 2nd league, stays here until now

moved to Mloty Stargard (S29-S32)

Mitar Apostolović

drafted by Ciletovi majstori (S20-S28)
S20-S28 Serbian 3rd league, now plays in Serbian 3rd league (after one season in 2nd league)

moved to Beer Drinkers BC (S29-S32)
S29-S32 Serbian 2nd league, stays here until now

moved to Mloty Stargard (S32)

Tzur Sheinzinger

drafted by Maccabi "dor" Tel Aviv, immediately moved to Seattle SuperSonics! (S18-S20)
S18-S20 Israeli 2nd league, won promotion to top league in S20, now in Israeli 2nd league

moved to new orleans paul (S20-S28)
S20-S23 Israeli top league
S24-S25 Israeli 2nd league
S26 Israeli top league
S27-S28 Israeli 2nd league
gets botted in S29

moved to Spójnia Stargard Szcz. (S29-S31)
S29-S31 Polish top league
gets botted in S31

moved to Mloty Stargard (S31-S32)

Tonko Garžina

drafted by Team Eagles (S19)
S19 Croatian 3rd league
get botted in S19

moved to 大地之熊 (S20-S25)
S20 Chinese 4th league
S21-S24 Chinese 3rd league
S25 Chinese 2nd league
get botted in S25

moved to DreamTeam Of China (S26-S27)
S26-S27 Chinese 2nd league

moved to Mloty Stargard (S27-S32)

Hilary Kudyk

drafted by WKS ASCO Śląsk Wroclaw (S17-S22)
S17 Polish 5th league
S18 Polish 4th league
S19-S22 Polish 5th league
get botted in S22

moved to Skra Belchatow (S23-S27)

S23-S24 Polish 4th league
S25 Polish 5th league
S26 Polish 4th league
S27 Polish 3rd league
get botted in S29

moved to Mloty Stargard (S27-S32)

Mo Yunbin

drafted by 金牛 (S19)
S19 Chinese 4th league, now plays in Chinese 2nd league

moved to Korea Team (S19-S25)
S19-S20 Russian 3rd league
S21-S23 Russian 2nd league
S24-S25 Russian top league
gets botted in S26

moved to 快马一鞭 (S26-S29)
S26 Chinese 3rd league
S27-S28 Chinese 2nd league
S29 Chinese top league
get botted in S31

moved to Mloty Stargard

Last edited by Siwy at 11/10/2015 15:21:14

Yalin Bugday

drafted by GFB, immediately moved to RealMaden-SK (S18-S21)
S18 Turkish 2nd league
S19-S20 Turkish 3nd league
S21 Turkish 2nd league
get botted in S31

moved to 篮球队 (S21-S25)
S21-S24 Chinese 4th league
S25 Chinese 3rd league
now plays in Chinese 4th league

moved to 孟菲斯-快船 (S25)
S25 Chinese 4th league
now plays in Chinese 4th league

moved to Foo-hoop fighters (S26-S31)
S26-S31 Albanian top league
get botted in S31

moved to Mloty Stargard (S31-S32)

SUPERLIGOTA
playing in Polish top league since S7

Bogdan Wasztyl

drafted by wizard duck (S17-S19)
S17-S18 Polish 4th league
S19 Polish 5th league
get botted in S19

moved to Boro Team (S19-S25)
S19 Polish 2nd league
S20-S22 Polish 3rd league
S23 Polish 2nd league
S24 Polish top league
S25 Polish 2nd league
get botted in S28

moved to SUPERLIGOTA

Branko Selestrin

drafted by Podgorje Rulles (S16)
S16 Croatian 3rd league, now plays in 2nd league

moved to KK Noa Zagreb (S16-S24)
S16 Croatian top league
S17 Croatian 2nd league
S18 Croatian 3rd league
S19 Croatian 4th league
S20 Croatian 3rd league
S21-S24 Croatian 2nd league, now plays in Croatian top league

moved to Detroit Basketball (S24-S27)
S24 Croatian 3rd league
S25-S26 Croatian 2nd league
S27 Croatian 3rd league, now plays in Croatian 3rd league

moved to Gineitiskes (S27-S28)
S27-S28 Lithuanian top division, now plays in Lithuanian 4th league

moved to Ezi (S28-S29)
S28-S29 Latvian top division, get botted in S32

moved to ASPK (S30)
S30 Polish top league, stays here until now

moved to kamparindo (S30)
S30 Indonesian top league, stays here until now

moved to Incow SK (S31)
S31 Turkish top league, gets botted in S32

moved to SUPERLIGOTA (S31-S32)

Benedetto Ottana

drafted by Darth-Vader Basket, immediately moved to Wild Squirrels (S18)
S18 Turkish 3rd league, gets botted in S29

moved to Klappse Episode 23 (S18-S21)
S18-S21 German 4th league, now plays in German 4th division

moved to MMustang (S21-S23)
S21-S23 Chinese 2nd league, get botted in S26

moved to super cocodrilos (S23-S25)
S23 Venezuelan 3rd league
S24 Venezuelan 2nd league
S25 Venezuelan 3rd league, get botted in S25

moved to KoF United (S25-S30)
S25-S30 Hong Kong's top league, get botted in S32

moved to SUPERLIGOTA

Józef Łodej

drafted by Legia Warszawa, immediately moved to Superfreakys (S18-S22)
S18-S19 Canadian 2nd league
S20 Canadian 3rd league
S21-S22 Canadian 2nd league, now plays in Canadian 2nd league

moves to SUPERLIGOTA (S22-S32)

Igor Vasović

drafted by Martonos Vultures, immediately moved to BC Tachov (S16)
S16 Czech 3rd league, get botted in S25

moved to Navaro (S16-S17)
S16-S17 Serbian 2nd league, now plays in Serbian 2nd league as КК Ђија ИН

moved to Topola Eagles (S17-S26)
S17 Serbian top league
S18 Serbian 2nd league
S19 Serbian 3rd league
S20 Serbian 2nd league
S21 Serbian 3rd league
S22-S23 Serbian 2nd league
S24-S26 Serbian top league, now in Serbian top league

moved to The Last Of Us (S26-S28)
S26-S28 Korean top league, botted in S31

moved to SUPERLIGOTA (S28-S32)

Panayiotis Karayiorgos

drafted by B.C. MILTIADES Salonika, immediately moved to Shanghai East big shark (S16-S24)
S16 Chinese 2nd league
S17-S18 Chinese 3rd league
S19-S24 Chinese 2nd league, botted in S25

moved to AlmogaversBC (S25-S26)
S25-S26 Spanish 2nd league, now in Spanish 2nd league

moved to Zaniemysl Basket Team (S26-S28)
S26 Polish 2nd league
S27-S28 Polish top league

moved to SUPERLIGOTA (S28-S32)

What does it mean? How should we interpret this data? I'm going to write some statements in third, final post - I need some rest after finding all this data

Last edited by Siwy at 11/10/2015 17:34:03

So it's time for summary of our data.

1. In fact, there some teams, which played in top leagues during training top players. Some of them were tanking (for example, KK Noa Zagreb with Selestrin or Vasović from Topola Eagles), but we can find some clubs, which were able to train and fight in top divisions at the same time (new orleans paul with Sheinzinger- the Israeli was trained in top division club when he was 20!; Łodej also begin his adventure with top division when he was 23 and it's probable, so he was trained by Superligota). Yes, it's still a quite rare situation, but it happens.

2.

80 to 90% of the trainers of the top players in the b3 are in fact no longer playing BB and/or exist in the bottom divisions of their respective nations.

Is that statement true? We have here 14 players. which were altogether trained by 26 managers, before they turned 23. How many of them are still active? 9 of them. It's around 35% of all trainers. If we compare it to your opinion, that there are only 10-20% of them, it's clear, that this statement is exaggerated.

3.

Over 50% of all B3 players have been FA at some point and around 25% have even been FA more than once

That statement is true, more, it may even be underestimated! 10 of 14 players were FA at least once, and 2 of 14 were FA at least twice. It gives us around 70% of once FA players, and 15% of twice+ FA players. According to that, it's true, that FA system is a key factor of making a world-class squad. Of course, world-class teams win most of top FAs auctions, because they usually have the biggest amount of money. However, this is usually an effect of their brilliant skills in managing their roster, not the lack of balance between the biggest ones, and the lesser ones.

4. Not every team, who gone FA after training a player, was uncompetetive. Only the few of them were playing in the lowest possible division in their country. The majority of them were mid-class teams, when they trained today's stars. I'm worried, that this fact haven't been taken into a consideration, when your opinions were made.

5. To make all things clear, we have to remember, B3 teams can't make a direct profit from farm teams! Why? Because if this players have to be sold, everyone can buy them. Therefore, agreements between farm teams and B3 teams are impossible - no one can make this kind of transfer sure.
Why I say it? Because both things come close in your posts, are we have to differ them- it's hard sometimes.

I think, that I can't make more statements at this moments. I hope, that someone will be available to make another thoughts about my data, if this topic is not finished yet.

EDIT: 6. I've forgotten about very important subject: how many players have been trained in their country into NT. Only then it's possible to say, that those players could be a part of farm team. According to my data, 10 from 14 players meets the criteria. One of them, Yalin Bugday, has too low potential to be trained to NT (perennial all-star). Now, we still have 9 players, which could be in farm teams. How many of them were played longer than 1 season in lowest possible active division? Kudyk, Wasztyl, Xiangui and Selestrin. That's three of them. Now, how many of them were trained, when their team was tanking? Vasović (get relegated from DI to DIII), and other players mentioned in previous question. Therefore, there are 5 players, which could be involved in farming. However, we can't say, if they were. Probably the most of them weren't.


Last edited by Siwy at 11/11/2015 10:46:23